Episode 183 - Gloria Riley - Leaders On Leadership

Leadership is a journey that shapes greatness from within. In this episode, we have Gloria Riley to discuss the depths of leadership. She explains the often-overlooked elements of loneliness, weariness, abandonment, and the critical component of vision that shapes true leadership. Explore the impact of burnout, the importance of self-awareness in overcoming feelings of abandonment, and the essence of finding clarity in one's vision and purpose. Gloria emphasizes the need for a pure heart and a servant leadership mentality in fulfilling these callings, drawing insights as well from her book, Imagine, Believe, and Prosper. Tune in now and learn how to become a true leader!

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Gloria Riley - Leaders on Leadership

Welcome to another episode where we pull back the curtain on leadership and talk with leaders of all ages and stages about what it takes to truly pay the price of leadership. My guest is the one, the only, the tremendous, Gloria Riley.

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Gloria, welcome.

Thank you so much for having me on your show. I am very honored to be here.

I'm so excited. Let me tell the audience a little bit about Tremendous Gloria. You guys know, especially Gloria, that was my mother's name. All Glorias are extra super tremendous. Gloria is a phenomenal, dynamic, and inspirational business owner. She's a coach, a speaker, and an author. We're going to talk about her book at the end of the episode.

She is devoted to self-development and assisting others as she works to partner with the Creator. It is nice to meet a sister in Christ too. Her motto is, “Growth and development of people is the principle calling of leadership.” Amen. You're at the right place. We can't wait to hear what you say. Welcome again.

Thank you so much. Thank you for that warm introduction.

You're welcome. I always like to tell our audience where we connected. She called me on our business line and started sharing that she's a brand new coach, she has written books, and she was looking for other books she had heard about on our website to share with her clients. We started going through this. The more we talked and recommended books, we found out the more things we had in common. I said, “Tremendous Gloria, would you please be on my show?” My sister got right on there, and here we are. It's amazing. When you're open to it, you never know who you're going to connect with.

Of all the things that Tremendous Leadership is about, it is leadership. We are students of leadership. We know that leaders are readers. Hence the beautiful combination of books and being a lifelong learner. My father gave a speech called The Price of Leadership many years ago. It was probably his most requested speech. In it, he said that there are four things that you're going to have to be committed to if you're going to truly be a leader and not just a leader in name only.

The first of those topics is loneliness. We've all heard the term, “It's lonely at the top,” or, “Heavy is the head that wears the crown.” Can you unpack what loneliness has looked like for you in your leadership journey and perhaps some words of wisdom that you could share with our audience if they might be in a season of loneliness?

As a leader, as a person, you are going to experience loneliness. What we do with that loneliness is turn that negative aspect of loneliness into something positive. I started off in the insurance and financial services industry. When I started off, it was mostly males in the industry. I started off as a supervisor for Allstate Insurance Company. Inside the corporate office, there is a mixture of males and females. When I decided to go into the field as a sales agent, it was mostly males. You have the training, and then they leave you to yourself.

As a leader, as a person you are going to experience loneliness as what we do with that loneliness turns that negative aspect of loneliness into something positive.

I always felt it was lonely because I always had to reach out for additional training, additional help, or to say, “I'm experiencing this situation. What's the best way to go about conquering this situation?” Whereas I saw other individuals come into the industry and they buddied up right away. They weren't like me having to extend my arms for assistance and help. I realized if there is such a thing as loneliness, I could either learn how to cope with it or suffer from it.

Loneliness, to me, is not positive. It's a negative. I know that negative vibrations don't come from above. They don't come from the Creator. I learned early on that if I wanted to move the needle about anything in life, I had to always find a way or find a crack somewhere in the ceiling to get out of that lonely space. That's what I did.

I normally would go to someone older than me to share with them what I was going through. Once they understood me and I understood them, so we began to communicate, collaborate, and share, they felt more comfortable with me to share information. It was so I didn't feel like I was on a lonely island by myself. No man's an island to himself.

When you experience loneliness, don't stay in that situation. Write down different strategies to get out of that situation and turn it into something positive. It is something that everyone experiences. There's no way of escaping it. It happens for a reason because it allows us to self-reflect, “What can I do better? How did I get into this situation? Why am I in this situation? Have others experienced this as well? What is the solution?”

As a leader, you learn how to solve problems. This was your personal problem and you were able to come out of it. That means that if you run across someone who's experiencing the same loneliness, you're able to assist them. You learn from presets and examples. You're the example. You don't have to stay lonely. It's something that everyone is going to experience, but always know there is an answer to loneliness. You have to reach out.

You talked about the ownership of it. You talked about the things that are from above, which are the gifts of the Spirit, joy, hope, and love. Loneliness is a self-imposed emotion. You may be physically alone because you're not aware of what you're supposed to be doing, but then take action and say, “I don't have to stay like this.” I love that you said that because so many times, we sit there and get more isolated.

People can't read our minds. It's up to you to go ask someone. I love that you talked about how then, you have the empathy that you can probably see other people struggling and say, “I've been there.” You can pick them up and help them. You had the self-efficacy to ask somebody for help, but a lot of people still struggle with that. If you are out there in a space of this, ask somebody and reach out. People, if they don't know what you're going through, may assume that you've got it already figured out. That's fabulous. I love that. It is true. It does happen to everybody, even the most popular, wild, successful people. It's going to hit you sooner or later, so have that strategy. Thank you for that.

The next thing he talked about was weariness. A lot of times, Charles was a humorist but very used to dealing with people. He ran his insurance industry too. He would say, “Tracey, in life, you're going to find some people that do way more than they are expected and a lot of people that do way less.” It's tiring because if everybody did what they were supposed to do, we would not get so rundown all the time, but that's the way it is. How do you combat weariness so you can stay at your top form for your children, business, coaching, writing, and everything?

I have found weariness several times in my life. I'm going to reflect back to the most recent time that I experienced it. It was burnout. Having my own insurance agency, trying to wear all the hats, and going through the daily routines of running a business, I found myself very burnt out. It almost turned into a depression. You have to realize that you're human and you can only take on so much stress, pressure, and responsibility. Everybody needs to be rejuvenated. You need to sit back, examine, and reflect on what you're going through and maybe why this is happening to you.

You talked about loneliness being an emotion. Weariness is an emotion too. When you feel this weariness coming upon you, you have to think, “Is this positive or negative? Is this a negative vibration or a positive vibration?” Mine was a negative vibration. Even my countenance had changed. I didn't smile as much as I normally do. I didn't exercise as much as I normally did. It affected every aspect of my body. I did not like the way that I felt so I wanted to change that situation immediately. I wanted to be able to talk about, “I’m burnt out.”

A lot of times, we see people who are depressed or wary, or they’re not themselves and we brush it off. We’re like, “They're going through this. Nevermind them. I don't have time for this. Call me later.” It's a serious emotion to be in. It's a serious situation that you have. You are asking for help. Burnout, to me in my situation, was a signal that I was doing too much. I had to restructure my business, get the assistance and direction that I needed, and change that situation so I didn't feel burnt out as much

It is being able to realize, “It's okay to feel burnt out, but now that you've had your pity party, what's next? How are we going to get on top of this? How are we going to change this around and go back to being the same you? We know that's not a fruit of the Spirit. We're supposed to experience joy and happiness.” If we go through a moment in time when we're not 100% ourselves or we're not displaying all the fruits of the Spirit, think about how you got to that state and then start working on the correction.

There is always a solution to a problem. We have to recognize it and recognize that is not the state that our Creator intended us to stay in. If it happens, think about it, pray about it, and design a plan or a strategy. If you need help, reach out for help and move on. There's so much work in this world that His children, God's children, need to accomplish on this earth.

We were destined to accomplish specific tasks, each one of us. Mine is different from yours. In order to accomplish those tasks, we have to be at the right vibration. We have to have the right Spirit and the right attitude. Light attracts light, so we have to be able to attract that light. That has to be in the very best possible situation, attitude, character, mindset, and influence financially, spiritually, and emotionally that we can possibly be in to help someone else.

We have to have the right spirit and the right attitude because light attracts light.

I love it when you hit that burnout and the restructure. This is so crucial. I hope everybody read what she dropped. It comes from 1 of 2 sources, your burnout and your weariness. Either you don't have the means, which means there's an external deficiency where you need the who or you need help, or you said it's resources or direction. That's an intrinsic piece. That means you don't have the clarity or the singularity of your vision or focus.

Weariness comes from either intrinsically you are not exactly clear on your meaning and purpose for God's highest and best use of you or, number two, you know it but you don't have the tools or resources to get it. When you dial that in, then you get that relentless energy, that indwelling, or that infusing stuff. You're with the right people externally and internally. I'm glad you hit on that. Burnout originates from 1 of 2 sources and you hit on both of those well. Thank you.

We talked about loneliness and weariness. The next part that he talked about was abandonment. A lot of times, we hear about one of the fears, and it is the fear of abandonment. I don't know if you're a pet owner, but I'm in rescue, so abandonment has a very negative connotation. Charles was like, “I'm talking about abandoning what you like and want to think about in favor of what you ought and need to.”

If left to our own self-serving devices, I may not get out of bed and stay in my jammies all day, and think about nonsense. Abandonment is stopping the waste of time because your time is precious and life is fleeting. We only have a certain amount of moments. That was his focus, this hyper abandonment of all things for the best and the purest. Since you have a lot of different plates and a lot of different hats you wear, how do you abandon the things that are maybe good but not the great that Gloria needs to be focusing on?

That’s another good character there too. I love the recap that you did on weariness. When I was thinking about abandonment, I was thinking about self-awareness and understanding my purpose in life. A lot of times, if you look at abandonment, it can come from a lot of different sources. Initially, when I thought about this, I thought, “I could have felt abandoned when I was three and a half years old.” I was raised by my mother's oldest sister. I was separated from my mom and my family in South Carolina and moved to Seattle, Washington. I was raised by my aunt and her husband. I could have felt abandoned that no one loved me, but look at God. God put me in a family that nurtured me to be the woman that I am.

When I look at any type of abandonment or being forsaken, I see a light. I know it sounds supernatural, but I always see a light. At the early age of three, I knew that I was a child of God. I always saw the light that there was always something better for me, so I always wanted greater. I know there was better, but for some reason, deep down inside, I always reached for greater. I always wanted the greater.

When I experience some type of rejection or abandonment or there's no clarity, self-direction, or self-awareness, I meditate, practice yoga, and practice self-affirmations, the self-confidence formula. I love to read. Those types of things bring me back. They center me into who I am and why I am here on this earth. I understand my purpose.

When you're self-aware, you know that you’re destined for greatness and you know who you are. There is clarity. There's no reason to feel abandoned. You set your trajectory because you have completed your annual report, which is your annual report of what you are going to accomplish for the next twelve months. You have priorities, strategies, goals, and action steps. Every month, you go back to review, “What am I to accomplish in January?” Check that off. In February, you’re like, “What did I complete in January?” You don't have the time to feel abandoned. You have a blueprint. You have a track record.

You must understand why you were created. Once you realize why you were created and what you were created to do, then you minister to those individuals. It's a two-way street. My work is to partner with God. I'm His hands, feet, and mind on this earth. When I can go to bed at night knowing I've done all I was commissioned and appointed to do, then there is no room to feel abandoned. I am fulfilled by what I accomplished that day.

You remind me so much of Charles. I can't wait for you to meet him in Heaven because he, too, was abandoned by his mother at a very young age as well as his four brothers and sisters after him. He would always tell me, “I need to not try and reimagine the past. It is what it is.” In Christ, all that's gone. Joan Anderson, who was the interview before this, talked about the one thing that everybody has to understand in the beginning, and that's their origin. That means we're all creatures. What's our origin?

When you're a creature and you’re created or you evolved, you think that you're your own origin, which I don't understand how you could create yourself, but neither here nor there. You go back to the Creator. When you realize, “I am His and created for Him,” that gives you that grounding because He was abandoned too, but He was a new creature. Talk about life insurance. He even had a policy called the eternal life insurance policy. He'd sell you a whole term life, but then He'd sell you eternal life because that would pick up where the other stuff would let off. That was His thing, like you, “How can I feel abandoned when I've been claimed?”

I love that you talk about that rooting, that grounding, or that sense of origin that gives you the meaning and fulfillment on which then, you can have your blueprint. You stop sucking your thumb and thinking, “Woe is me.” Woe is everybody. Look at Joseph or the greats in the Bible that went through their abandonment. It is what it is, but we don't have to stay in that space. Thank you for that take on abandonment which I had not heard before.

That's great. I thought of it literally, but when you asked me the question, I thought about it in a different way. My mother did the best she could do. She felt she was making the best decision for me, her daughter. It was the best decision.

For my dad, it was too.  It’s one of those things that you have to recognize. You did talk about abandonment and that you abandoned that feeling of, “Nobody loves me.” You could have carried that. There are still people with healthy two-family houses that still carry stuff. It's like, “Stop. They did the best they could or they were completely demonic and evil. That's neither here nor there. Right now, this is where you are.”

That's what we're talking about. We all fail each other all the time. Even the best parents are still horrible parents because that's the nature of sin and the fall of man. You did talk about abandonment in the sense that could have been the grudge or the bone of contention that made you so angry that you never found the love of Christ and you were out of sorts your whole life and mad.

That is so true.

I love that you peeled that back. We could go on and on about it. It touched me because I remember Dad talking to me about that. I was like, “I can't imagine that.” He was like, “You have a choice. You can abandon those feelings of hostility and anger. You can stop looking at other kids and realizing, “They all came from two-family households,” or back then, a lot of them did, “Why not me?” It's a ridiculous question. The verse is always what man intended for evil, God intended for good. Whatever else you went through, you don't have to harbor that. Thank you so much

Lastly, vision. I would always screw up with a lot of visionary people. I'm like, “They must have a chip in their brain to let them see things. They are amazing, influential, godly, and ethical.” Although my dad was like, “Vision is seeing what needs to be done and then doing it.” He had this very pragmatic tactical aspect to it. Strategic thinking is great, but without tactical planning and execution, it's esoteric. Can you share with us, especially as a coach, how you craft a vision for yourself or how you see a vision in our lives as a leader and some words of wisdom that you would give to us on that topic?

I see vision as your dad said that he sees something that needs to be done and he does it. I'll add this personal statement with you on how I see vision not all the time but for a majority of the time. I could be driving or I can be in the shower, or I can be walking my dog. I can be doing something completely unscheduled and a vision can come to me. I can see what I want to implement. I can see my next project or goal. When it happened, I wouldn't give it all the credit I needed to give it. I was thinking, “The wind is blowing. A vision that's coming to me is not significant.” As I started getting older, I realized it was a vision from above and it was very significant, so then I started implementing those visions.

Case in point, a few years ago, I had a vision to have a conference. In September 2023, I had a conference called the Wealth Legacy Retreat here in Atlanta. We talked about accumulating wealth and all the aspects of it, which were the legal part of it, the financial part of it, the health part of it, and the spiritual part of it, and brought it together. That was a vision that I received a few years ago. I worked on it until I was able to manifest it. When we are given the vision, then the task is to share that vision. You must be a good communicator to share that vision with others, and then as a collaborative body, you bring the vision to pass. I wanted to share that with you.

Leadership: The task is to share that vision. So, you must be a good communicator to share that Vision with others.

A lot of times, visions come to us when we're asleep. When we're asleep, the visions come, and then you wake up like, “Why did I think about that?” What I normally do is journal a lot. When I have a vision, I  journal it. It's day 1 or day 2. I have two journals. There's a writing journal and a gratitude journal. I have one journal that's dedicated to gratification or gratitude. I’d be like, “I'm grateful today that I'm on the show with Dr. Jones.”

Vision, I believe, is so critical because you see it in different arenas. This is going to sound quirky again, but on Christmas night, everybody went to bed to wake up the next morning. I had a dream and was quiet about it. I didn't share it with anybody. In the dream, it's death two times. I didn't share it with my spouse, my family members, or anyone.

I received a text message that someone in my family had passed. In the past, I've seen a silhouette of death. I have dreamt about death. This one was an audible vision. I've also seen the picturesque vision as well. When we talk about vision, to me, there's a spiritual side of vision and then, for lack of a better word, a marketplace for vision. Vision is given to those that the Creator can entrust that will see the vision through no matter the results. It is like, “If I trust you to do what I've asked you or called you to do, will you complete the vision?”

At the conference, one lady came up to me. She was crying when she said this to me. When she came up, her eyes weren't filled with water, but when she got there talking, it was, and mine was tearing down too. She says, “I want to thank you for completing the vision.” That meant so much to me. It was like someone had given me $1 million because I was faithful in completing the vision that God had given me. He gave it to me years ago. I fought with it. I had to make sure everything was right.

You have to be willing to receive the vision, implement the vision, and see it through. If God can trust you with a little, He can trust you with more. Sometimes, they're scary because then, you go back to the spiritual vision. Hearing death while you're sleeping two times is scary. I didn't share it with anyone. Seeing as you’re driving a car a silhouette of death is scary as well.

The Lord, and I believe this is in the word of God, will entrust those that He knows are His children of God. He will only give to those who have an intimate relationship that He can trust to give certain visions to. You don't have to be perfect, but the Lord wants to know that you have a pure heart. You're not accomplishing these visions so you can prosper. You are acting in a servant leadership role with a responsibility to accomplish those visions.

You don't have to be perfect. But the Lord wants to know that you have a pure heart and you're not you're not accomplishing these Visions just so you can prosper. You are acting in a servant leadership role.

I love that you hit on the basis of vision. A lot of people quote, “All things work together for good work,” but you're forgetting the other part. If you love God, then you're His child. A lot of people are like, “I love God.” I'm like, “You're not.” They are called according to his purpose. I love that you brought out that vision is not a true vision from above. We know there are a lot of demonic visions going on in the prince of the world unless God has authored it. If God hasn't authored this vision, He's not obligated to finish it. If He gives it to you and He knows that you are a willing soldier and will do the work as you did, there's going to be no stopping it.

I'm so glad you brought that up because everything's like, “It's an idea from God.” Are you prepared for it? I'm sure when you got that vision, it was because He knew, and He's omniscient so He already knows, that you had been preparing your whole life for this. It's not something that you sat up one day and said, “I feel like doing this.” It's not Willy-nilly. It’s perpetual. You were a baby and then you were an adolescent. You’re a young woman, and then you’re a warrior woman in Christ grounded in the financial industry and able to rightly divide the word of truth and the word of wealth. That's when it comes together.

Wonderfully said.

I love it. I love that you brought up what vision is because a lot of times, it’s like, “When does it come for me?” You're so right without our creator, we're integrators. We're executors. He already made everything that ever was and it's all His anyway. Let’s be good stewards of the talents we're given and let Him do the rest.  Thank you.

Thank you.

This is like C.S. Lewis stuff. I got to go back and chew on it a couple of times to get the good stuff out of it.

I love C.S. Lewis.

We talked about loneliness, weariness, abandonment, and vision. Is there anything else that you would like to share with our audience as far as anything else leadership you'd like to share with them? Also, I would like you to share about your book too.

I know that regarding leadership, there are so many distractions vying for our time in terms of who's a leader, who's an influencer, or who's doing what. We need to stay focused on true leadership. True leadership doesn't ask for a pat on the back. We want to move a person from where they are to where we see they can be. We can see their journey and their destination before they can even see it.

True leadership is iron sharpening iron and helping that person get to their greatness. I did want to mention that about truth leadership and keeping your eye on the ball. What I mean is staying in tune with the spiritual awakening of our spiritual destiny. That will guide us to the type of leader and the type of leadership that we need to share and spread to the world.

Leadership: True leadership is iron sharpening iron.

Imagine, Believe & Prosper(R): A Guide To Financial Success

I am a second-time author. I haven't written as many books as you have, but I have written a book and it's on Amazon. It's called IMAGINE, BELIEVE, & PROSPER. The name came to me as a vision. I have trademarked the name because it means that much to me. That's my mantra. If you can imagine, you can see it. You can imagine it. You can believe it before you receive it. Your desires will come to pass and you will prosper. That's the name of the book. It's a guide to financial success. It's available on my website at GloriaRiley.com. It's also available on Amazon. If you would read it and write a review, I would appreciate it a lot. It's a guide that can help any and everybody.

There are a lot of changes coming into the financial services arena. We know that. There are a lot of changes coming to the banking system, cryptocurrency, Bitcoin, digital currency, housing market, life insurance, homeowners insurance, and mortgages. There are a lot of changes coming down the pike. God wants us to be great stewards of what He has given us.

Education is a continuous curriculum or a continuous journey that we need to always pursue and stay on top of. We need to continue being good stewards of what we have. Once we do that, then we're able to bless others. I hope you will pick up the book. It's not too late. You can send out a belated Christmas gift or share it with friends and leave a message for me on my website about what you thought of the book.

I love it.

I'm so excited about that. I'm a coach, an author, and a speaker, and I run an insurance agency. God will design you in such a way that you're able to fulfill everything that He has predestined you to do. I thank God that everything that I touch is intertwined with financial literacy. It is making sure that we understand the times that we're living in, that we are good stewards of our resources, and that we take care of the loved ones that we brought into this world and the loved ones that we communicate and connect with all the time. Iron sharpens iron.

A lot of people are having difficult times in this recession with the high economy. They need encouragement. Someone may not ever hear my voice, but thank you. Here, they will read what I have to say. Even the lost children are still children of God. They're lost but they're still created by God. They say, “A voice of a stranger they will not obey.” We need to share the good news of the gospel that God loves you. He will provide for you and will give you the resources that you need so that you can live a godly life.

It all starts with that. Otherwise, you could give everybody $1 billion and it would make things worse without that awareness or without knowing it. Bless your heart. Thank you. If you're looking for a coach, we want you to stay in touch with her. To our audience, this brings us to the end of another one of our tremendous, robust, rich, informative, and inspiring discussions. Thank you so much for tuning in.

If you like what you’ve read, please be sure and hit the subscribe button. Share it with a friend who may need to know how to pay the price of leadership and be encouraged that if they're going through loneliness, weariness, abandonment, and vision, they're doing it right. There are leaders like us that are here to put their arms around them. If you'd leave us the honor of a five-star review, that lets other people know the kind of caliber of content that you're reading. Please also connect with Tremendous Gloria. Thank you again so much for sharing with us. Such a blessing.

Thank you. It was an honor. I've enjoyed it so much. I love the work that you're doing. I commend you. May God continue to bless you. It's been a phenomenal time here with you. I've enjoyed it so much.

I look forward to maybe even doing a conference together. That would truly be tremendous, wouldn't it?

Yes, it would be.

Leadership: You're going to be the same person five years from now that you are today except for two things: the people you meet and the books you read.

To our audience out there, always remember you're going to be the same person five years from now except for two things, the people you meet and the books you read, so make sure they are both tremendous. Thanks so much for paying the price of leadership. Have a tremendous rest of your day. Bye.

Important Links

• Gloria Riley

• IMAGINE, BELIEVE, & PROSPER

• GloriaRiley.com

• https://www.Instagram.com/OfficialGloriaRiley/

About Gloria Riley

Gloria Riley is a phenomenal, dynamic, inspirational business owner, coach, speaker, and author. She is devoted to self-development and assisting others as she works to partner with the Creator. Her motto is "Growth and development of people is the principle calling of leadership".

Episode 176 - Dr. Lee Hardin - Leaders on Leadership

Leadership is a journey of shared vision. In this episode, we dig deeper into the community value of leadership with our exceptional guest, Lee Hardin. Drawing from his extensive military experience, Lee shares his leadership's core principles, emphasizing the importance of self-awareness and the art of balancing vision with practicality. He discusses the challenges of leadership, touching on the feelings of loneliness and weariness that leaders often encounter. But more than that, Lee explores the concept of "shared vision" and how it's a linchpin in achieving success. He discusses the significance of collective goals and the power of a team viewing objectives through the same lens. It's a reminder that, in leadership, the synergy of shared vision keeps teams united and motivated. Tune in and discover how to lead with a purpose, build a shared vision, and balance your strengths to make a positive impact.

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Watch the episode here

Listen to the podcast here

Dr. Lee Hardin - Leaders on Leadership

In this episode, I'm very excited to introduce you to my guest, Dr. Lee Hardin. Welcome, Lee.

Thank you so much for having me on. I greatly appreciate it.

You're welcome. Let me tell you a little bit about Dr. Lee Hardin. He holds a PhD in Educational Psychology from Temple. He has a Master's in Instructional Technology from Bloomsburg. He is an active Army duty officer with many years of service in the Pennsylvania Army National Guard. He was an Iraqi veteran from 2005 to 2006 at Al-Ramadi, Iraq.

Lee is also an adjunct professor in the College of Education and Human Development at Temple Research Interests in Executive Function/Self-Regulation Gamification and Instructional Design. Most of all, he is the father of three boys and has been happily married for many years. Lee, we're delighted to have you.

I should hire you for all my introductions. Thank you so much. That was so nice.

You're welcome. I'm excited for our readers out here. I always like to tell you how Lee and I connected. Lee reached out to me on LinkedIn. You saw somebody American College of Veteran Services. You said hey as a PhD and vet. We connected. I'm excited we did connect. After hearing about your educational background and your love of continuous learning and our country, I said, “I got to have you on this show.” Thank you for saying yes to my request.

Thank you so much for the great resources, especially since we're locals in Carlisle. There's a lot of military history, heritage, and connections that I made with the communities. The community is large. I'm thankful that's happened to it. It's great to meet you.

Thank you. You served under one of our previous guests, Major General John Gronski.

I could speak accolades upon accolades about that man. He's a wonderful person and has been very influential in my career, for my father as well who served with him. I was amazed that once we started connecting, I saw he was on your show. I go to the episode. It was great. He's written two books. I've had many interactions with him over the years and I'll share these stories here. He's great.

We got so much positive feedback on that as I'm sure we'll get on yours. Readers, this is Lee's very first guesting.

I’m starting at the top.

We're going to be talking about leadership. One of my father Charlie “Tremendous” Jones’ speeches was called The Price Of Leadership. After growing an insurance industry and growing his consulting company, he said, “For you to be in leadership, you're going to have to pay the price so you're not a LINO or Leader In Name Only.”

The first price of leadership is loneliness. We've all heard that's why a lot of people don't want to go to leadership because they still want to have friends and family over for dinner like I was in a family business. Can you talk to us about what loneliness means to you as a leader and maybe share a time when you went through a season of loneliness?

After reading some of the tenets that your father brought up, that's probably one of the biggest ones that hit me. Every organization and industry is different. Some places have a hierarchy that you start at maybe at the bottom or entry level and you work your way up. It hinted toward there when you explained it. You make a lot of friends along the way. It gets very difficult when you become in those supervisory, managerial, director, or executive level positions. It's hard to cut ties but you still also want to keep that interpersonal connection you made with people.

The military is a very small community. You're always around people you always meet. In the education academic field, it's very much the same. The big thing that I encountered was that we all have our passions. There are certain things that we like. Sometimes you join an organization where the culture is a little bit different. There may be something that you coming in as a leader.

There are predecessors prior to you who set certain standards and tones good or bad. It may work or may not. Making that assessment and trying to figure out, “Now that I'm the new person in here, how to give my flavor and my vision as well while also ensuring that people are still productive, happy to be there, and also buying into what I'm trying to get them all on board with?”

The big thing for me was that I had a Master’s in Instructional Technology. One thing that I was more tech-forward than a lot of people, for example, was when I first joined Temple many years ago. My role was in charge of teaching all the teachers. I was running faculty workshops to improve them and their abilities to lead various online courses and asynchronous courses. PhD people are wonderful. They are incredibly knowledgeable and smart. They know their research interests very well but not a lot of them can utilize technology. They can't convey communication very well. They may know a lot of things but maybe communicating and being a good teacher is sometimes a challenge.

They take these workshops or self-development which is wonderful and outleading in spearheading a lot of the HR initiatives for these technology workshops. The one thing that I thought was interesting, and this is maybe for some of the younger/older readers, is if you've ever been to a conference where a speaker how to PowerPoint, they ask you to pull out your phone and maybe buzz on in with a certain answer to a question or something like that, it’s like polling the audience, giving feedback, and also getting people engaged.

The technology at the time when I first joined Temple was making students with these remote control devices or clickers from the bookstore. It costs a lot of money. There were a lot of problems with it. I'm like, “Kids have smartphones. This is not a new technology. It is something that a lot of other places and corporations use. We should be embracing a lot of the new changes and getting rid of some of this old stuff because there are so many problems.”

The big driver of that was noticing how many complaints were coming from students. How many calls were going into the tech center? Their clickers don't work, “I lost my clicker.” Faculty were upset with it because they weren't getting accurate results and data. Sometimes when you're lonely with a passion like, “This is a technology we probably should be going in,” it's hard when there are people who may not understand it. They may be also afraid to invest in it. They may be afraid to spend money on it and learn something new.

As adults with adult learning theories here, we are resistant to change. It's trying to get people invested in buying in. Sometimes, I feel the biggest challenge that I have with the loneliest factor, a lot of things, is that we come from different organizations. You're being hired for a reason because you have expertise, how can you also get people at least maybe not passionate about it? They can understand that this is a benefit. That is the biggest thing that sometimes has trickle effects on everybody else.

That's valuable because you are an outsider and you were hired for something. As an early adapter, you may be the only one that sees it. What would you recommend out there? Is there a certain time frame? You always have some naysayers and that's fine. We know that but what would you recommend people when they're in that phase? That is a little unsettling. You're brought in and you see it but you don't know who else is going to see it.

If there are reasons why change needs to occur, maybe the company is here and there is a new direction and end goal in sight that we need to be at this level maybe because the current operation is not meeting quotas or certain standards, a solution and intervention has to be brought in there. Assessing the culture and knowing, “Are the people unhappy? How the previous administration or certain things were going on? Was there some negativity? Are they stuck in their ways for a certain reason?”

Trying to pull and get as much data information is key. Understanding where people are, bringing them into the room, having candid conversations, getting opinions, and then trying to pivot a little bit to show that, “This is what you have but here is a benefit that we probably need.” You would agree in trying to get them with that type of terminology and language. Can they understand that there's a benefit here that maybe would reduce the amount of work you're doing, maybe improve communications in a way, or there would maybe a faster process of getting from this step to this step if we do this new way?

It could fail but also understanding and explaining risk to. Making it sound like it's going to benefit them and make their life or the process a little bit easier. Sometimes people in certain situations, depending on how long they've been there or whatever their role may be are looking in there. There are small bubbles and how it affects them or their team. They are good manager and leaders. They're all looking out for their people below as well like, “Is this creating more work? Is this going to hinder my progress?” Trying to bridge those gaps and find the best solution sometimes is the way that I always sell. Let's look at the organizational and team benefits. Those are the two I always go with.

I love that you talked about getting the people on board, especially as an educator. I read this book. It came out in the ‘50s. I had to tell what you know and it was about how to teach foremen to teach managers. You used to go out behind the back at the shop and pummel each other. We don't do that anymore. They said, “People can only learn new knowledge when you put it on an overlay of something they already know.”

People can only learn new knowledge when you put it on an overlay of something.

To your point, when you are coming on with something new to them, you have to drop it down and build on something even if you have a PhD, 2 or 3. That's how we learn. I remember when people would tell me stuff, I was like, “It's flying over my head. I have nothing to link it to.” Knowledge can only be built on knowledge. You can't just input something new. It has to be traced back.

For educators and loneliness, it's a matter of people saying, “They don't get it. They don't like change.” That's never the case. We're all in the world. It's 2003. You may not be a fan of change but there's something else going on there. We're having trouble linking it to something in the real world or there's a trust issue, which doesn't mean we don't like change. It means we don't trust the person giving us that. I don't know if we talked about bringing that down, especially to very smart educators who get that knowledge that is always changing. They're not afraid of new knowledge. What we get paid to do is find new knowledge.

To add to your point, every industry is different with different readers out there. What is the demographic? What is the client? What is the customer? Especially when it comes to academia, they're young. 18 to 22-year-olds are a primary demographic there. They're used to using a lot of technology. That's common sense to them that you have educators who are very experienced, knowledgeable, and probably very good teachers.

Organizations change software all the time. They upgrade new systems, different types of websites, and computers. There are a lot of things that are obstacles to overcome. You can say that gets in the way of learning. That's the bureaucracy of every single industry you're dealing with, how to reach your client in addition to all the other tasks that support and supplement it. You can still reach them but it may not be the most effective way anymore in five years.

Shared Vision: That's the bureaucracy of every single kind of industry you're dealing with, how to reach your client in addition to all the other tasks that support and supplement it. You can still reach them, but it may not be the most effective way anymore.

Reaching is teaching. The more I stop consulting or trying to motivate people and teach, it's remarkable. Can we talk about all the great things from when social media first came out? Kids, you can laugh but this was a long time ago. On Twitter a few years ago, I was like, “I'm not doing this.” Somebody says, “Let me show you.” They set it up and I'm like, “That was easy.”

It’s like ChatGPT. I'm like, “What is this? This is dumbing people down. This is an abomination.” Somebody says, “Put something in there and type it.” I'm like, “Are you kidding me?” I was so reticent because I didn't know what I didn't know. They call it, “You are unconsciously unconscious.” People see, “This isn't that big of a threat and deal.” The benefits of it are remarkable.

I was feeling lonely for a while because I had so many people I needed to give me products. I was waiting for them. I'm like, “As a solopreneur, it's already lonely enough when you're waiting for people but this has allowed me to get ten times the work done and keep focusing on my interaction with people and not be in this lonely space of I can't move forward.” That's my ChatGPT plug right there.

A lot of people still have those reservations. Is it a perfect system? No. There are still a lot of things that need to be explored but it's managed responsibly. It responsibly embracing. We need to welcome something new but also be cautious about how it's being used. Some people are worried about, “This will replace a job here and there.” Not necessarily.

There are a lot of nuances in human experiences that come into a lot of the work that we do, especially when it comes to leadership, managing people, and resources. Can AI do that? Not necessarily. Maybe in the future, sure but I don't think that's something that we're going to have to necessarily deal with regulation and government oversight. Also, industry oversight. How can we choose how we want to use this? To your point, exploring is good. Being always cautious and asking questions of why and how is going to help frame your mindset moving forward.

Exploring is good, but being always cautious and asking questions why and how, that's going to help frame your mindset moving forward.

We talked about loneliness. How about weariness? My dad would always tell me, “If you're going to be out there leading, you're going to get some people that do way more than what's expected and a lot that don't.” You think everybody in the military is. People are everybody else. There are super soldiers and then there are people who are checking the clock until a retired on active duty would call, a road sergeant. How do you stay on top fighting from you're teaching, father, husband, creating content and you're serving in the military and deploying? How do you combat weariness?

Loneliness is number one. Weariness is right behind there. Burnout is inevitable no matter who you are. There are different types of burnout whether it is physical, mental, emotional, spiritual, or whatever it may be that you're experiencing. Life throws things at us that are also additional obstacles that get in the way of us and our trajectory. It's a lot working to jobs. I'm very thankful for my family. My family is a bedrock.

I learned that I could not always do it by myself. When I was a young soldier, very hungry, and wanted to get out there and do everything, that was great. That was a good time in my life. As new responsibilities came forward, I had to also push aside the persona of being strong and tough, asking for help and not being afraid to do so. A lot of people are afraid to ask even their peers. Even asking your team if you have subordinates or other people out there. They want everyone to succeed. They don't want to have drama or trouble at work.

If there's a way that people can pitch in, great. With weariness, it's your responsibility to understand what helps you blow off some steam. I've always been active. I was a collegiate athlete. I swam in college. Though I miss the water, and I wish I could get in the water more often, I can't but with my kids teaching them to swim and things like that, it's great. Working out is probably so much the one thing that I'll always dedicate 30 minutes of my time to. I can do 30 minutes in various ways.

It's not like I'm working out like I used to when I was younger. A lot of time catches up with you. Flexibility and mobility are key. The one thing that I've learned in the last few years with all the new responsibilities that I've been dealing with is that the other thing that would make it more nagging and terrible is if I also have bad knees, bad back, or things that are hurting me. I'm also dealing with these mental issues and these things that are at work, and all these tasks I have to deal with. I have to add on an injury or something like that. That's not something that I ever want to go through ever again.

I've had some injuries before and it makes things a lot more complicated. I feel that even if it is yoga, stretching, or anything like that where that's getting you up and moving, it's a part of self-care and that's one thing that you can't make others do for you. It's not in other care. Self-care comes in many forms. Reading books is always great too for mental fatigue. Some people have a negative concept of maybe binge-watching a show. There are some times when you do need to turn off for a little bit and not be the director, president, or whatever your title may be.

Tap into some creative or imaginative aspects. For me and being a parent, my kids are getting to the age where we are being careful with video games and stuff like that. That gets a bad rap but I'm very passionate about that. There are a lot of puzzle processes and benefits of it. I see my kids light up when they're overcoming a challenge, working with them, and playing it together. You are creating memories and it's fun. Seeing their joy is residual. A smile is contagious. Those are the things that I tap into as much as I can. It is a little bit of time for me but a little bit of time for my family. It sets things all in the right way. That's for me.

I love the physical aspect of it. For those out there who have been in the military, we were taught early on. We were gym rats. Your physical conditioning was an integral part of it. For people that are in their mid-40s, people are like, “He's still in the prime.” We're all in our prime. I don't care if you go away from it for twenty years. Your body doesn't forget. There have been times when I have been away from working out for fifteen years. If I'm back in four weeks, I'm telling you, I am almost where I was before honestly.

You look at the people in their 70s, 80s, or 90s. We got people walking around. You got to finish the race strong and take care of the shell. You will live. There's no reason why we should all live to be 120 if we stay highway proportionate and stay away from the big lifestyle illnesses like stress, smoking, drinking, and bad eating. The body is the beautiful thing that God created. We have to watch out for that. Listen to yourself. I can't read your mind. I'm not God. You have to take care of yourself.

It's good to indulge in a nice dessert here. Be happy with it. It's never too late to start. There are going to be benefits that come from it even in 1 week or 2. Have some consistency. Get out of bed maybe a little bit faster and not feel back pain. Those are the things you're working for. It's longevity. It’s feeling good. That unlocks more potential and other opportunities to do other things as well. That's where I'm looking at my kids and seeing how active they are. I want to be active for them.

I want to get out there, play wall, and do all those good things. Get outside, enjoy the weather that we have, and see the beautiful fall colors and stuff. That's the stuff that I want to do. It's staying focused and making a routine regimen. Some people may see that as an extra burden but it’s not. It's a way to keep your home spirituality and mind free to move on to other tasks. That's the way I look at it.

Shared Vision: Staying focused and making a routine, a regimen. Some people may see that as an extra burden, it's not though. It's a way to also keep your home, spirituality, and your own mind free to move on to other tasks too.

The body is the temple. Respect and take care of it. The other thing is for everybody's aging, either you get year equipped to take care of yourself or you've got to have somebody take care of you. I'm strong. I thank God for my health. I take my health very seriously but I am here because I want to be able to take care of people. It's a selfless thing. It's not like, “Why should I do this?” Either you're going to be in a home or something.

Half of Americans have been on a medicine for X number of years. I'm not talking about genetic stuff. I'm talking about stuff that you should deal with and then get off. It's not a good habit. There are always repercussions and unintended consequences. Your body, if left to, is the right thing and a lot of natural things. We were in the military with our clearances. There are a lot of things I couldn't take and I'm thankful I couldn't take them. I had to figure out a way to solve anxiety or depression. I did. I came through it as a situational thing.

That goes back to the first point of being able to open up. If you can't do certain things, find resources because there's plenty out there. There are always alternative forms and things that can help you out. People have expertise in different areas and stuff. Leverage that stuff. That's 100%.

Thank you. We've talked about loneliness and weariness. The next topic my father talked about was abandonment. I saw your puppy earlier. For us abandonment has a negative connotation. You abandoned your dog or fear of abandonment. One of the fears is people stay in toxic relationships because they’re like, “Bad is better than nothing.”

He said, “Abandonment is to stop thinking about what you like and want to think about in favor of what you ought and need to think about.” It's abandoning the things that are not the highest and best use of your calling, whether it be a sideline, a habit, or a friend. He's talking about pruning and getting very focused on the battle plan of what's next. Can you talk to us about that? You're juggling a lot of places. How do you stay focused on what you need to be focused on? I'm sure you get asked to do 100 different things on any given week.

I'm sure everyone does. Everyone's got different situations. That's where reaching out to you and starting this journey. I realized that I was living two lives. I'm in the military. There are a lot of different types of things and demands but also at the same time, I went out on my own. I was doing night school. I spent eleven years of my life in college, getting a Master's, a PhD, and everything. That was a very lonely journey because you're working a full day, 9:00 to 5:00, and at night, spending lots of hours in classes and then writing papers. Kids are also involved.

I'm very thankful for my parents. My dad was an active duty service member. I was an Army brat born in Maryland. We moved around. My mom was a nurse. She did certain periods. She was the breadwinner. She was making money because nursing is a great field to be in as well. The long-term goal that was established early on was I look at why my parents did. They were very supportive and encouraging. My brother and I were the first people to go to college. We wanted to get a degree.

I didn't necessarily know even while I was doing all these things what I wanted to do until probably my mid-twenties. I realized the passion that I had to be a teacher and an educator. As a leader, you have to be that too. It's not just by being in a classroom and a professor. There are things that you have to manage. There are three major skills that I keep looking at with my personality. I have some strengths and certain weaknesses.

The major end goal where I want to be is trying to find, “The military is not going to last forever. How can I improve myself so I can better than also transition into other areas in academia, corporate, or whatever it may be and also still have the same skills that I've developed in the military but also look at ways of improving myself and getting myself out there to learn new things?” I don't know everything. A degree is a wonderful thing. Having letters and stuff next to your name is awesome. Time keeps moving forward, research and new education.

A lot of things that I'm always passionate about are going to be education. I would like to see, “Where am I going to be in ten years from now?” I'm hoping that I am with a team that is as energized and fired up about certain things as I am. It's a great camaraderie and moral thing but also being a person who is very empathetic and able to take care of people. I want to continue teaching and educating but also dive into other realms of research, maybe write a book and do another study or two, and hopefully would help future veterans or do a study that is helping out mid-level or small leaders impacts of training.

Those are things that I feel, “How can I leave a lasting mark?” It's hard to see those far-away goals sometimes. Making long-term goals is important but the short-term ones too are as important. What can you do in the next year? What can you do in the next two years? When can I do my next phase of military education? Do I want to get another degree? I don't know about that one but at least where can I focus my time to make it most beneficial to meet that final goal?

Making long-term goals is important, but the short-term ones too are just as important.

One thing to wrap a bow on it is my research on executive function. Executive function is a set of skills and we all have it. What makes you a competent human being? You have certain needs and decisions to make every day. Executive function is a set of skills of you establishing a goal and then thinking about the best ways available to you at this point to get that goal. The final piece is regulating your behavior to do it. That is a problem with many people.

We have different motivations, extrinsic and intrinsic. Things are more prioritized. Something's more rewarding to us or more gravitated towards this. Think of people who are like, “New Year's comes around. I'd like to have a New Year's resolution where I would only lose weight.”They have an established goal. They think about certain things that they may want to cut out of their life. Some of those bad habits, maybe no more soda. “You have a lot of sugar. I can't have that.”

The hard part is regulating the behavior and staying on track. Sometimes making goals is very nice. They have their hardship. Finding the smaller achievable goals to build to the long-term goal is probably the best way. I'm trying to explore, “Where am I going? I have an open road ahead of me. I still have a few years of military service left,” but at the same time, I want to make sure that that time is also going to be beneficial to move to the next step of my life.

You talked about your ideal. The wonderful exercise is, “Here we are and where we're going to be.” Anything that isn't up here and down here, you don't drag with you. A lot of people struggle with abandonment because they haven't determined exactly what they want. If you haven't taken the time to understand who you are, you can't understand anybody else until you understand yourself. Leadership is self-awareness. I know how I'm perceived, who's going to get me, and who's not going to get me but that's beautiful that you talk about your goals than anything. You can say, “Eventually, this is going to all dovetail into getting me where I want to be in ten years. It stays on the plate.”

You even talked about getting your PhD when you go back in for school, an advanced degree, or certification. You have to take stuff off. You have to abandon things that maybe you did before. You may go into mixers, fun, or vacation. You can't do that now because your end goal is this and there's only a certain amount of hours in a day. I like that. Goals help you stay at the forefront of what gets packed in the bag for the next level of the ascent and what stays at base camp. You're like, “I outgrew this. I don't need this anymore.”

Saying no is a very powerful thing. It's tough to do, especially with friends and other things but sometimes making sure you circle back to what does matter to you. Abandoning is tough. That's a very strong word.

It's something you did once. Saying no always means something's dying off but that's okay because abandonment means new growth can't happen until the dead disease is dying or pruning off. We're getting into fall but come spring, you whack everything off because if you don't, there's no explosive growth. You can't keep going and doing all the old things you used to do.

We're not made that way. We can't do it. We go through seasons. We're in this season. You're coming out of your military season. I did that many years ago. I had to go, “That worked for me. What do I bring along the way that is still all the skillsets?” There are things I had to stop doing and relationships I let go of because we're onto something else.

There's always going to be transitions with every type of job. It is not just the military out there that people are going to retire and move on. “You got that pension or whatever it may be.” There are certain goals you may have attained and then you want to move on to the next set. That's great. I'm not sure exactly even for me in my stage what is it even out there. That's where I feel that I'm doing my research and seeing what other opportunities could there be.

There's always going to be transitions with every type of job.

Maybe academia is where I would want to end up but what if there's an opportunity for me to also help government work or something with the corporate sector that I can get passionate about? I'm not saying no to anything. It's more about seeing what is the best way that I can move forward that will also help enhance my family's life and my values.

You're doing the heavy lifting and figuring out what you want. People say, “What's next? I haven't thought about it.” You're going to have to. We don't retire from something. We retire to something. That takes strategic planning and tactical. It takes setting some real things together. We have friends who got out of the military after 20 or 30 years and that's it. They didn't look long unfortunately because if you don't have a purpose and stuff like that, you're like, “What else is there?”

For some people out there, maybe they reach a certain point there and that's great. I do feel sometimes, “Why settle when there are other things that you can embark on a journey and embrace?” You're retiring to something new. That's excellent. I don't want to think of my life in phases of employment, the jobs I had, or the settings I was in. It's more so I feel that there's always continual growth.

There are certain things that you are going to outgrow. There are certain skills and things that I used to do. It's not saying that I'm above them by any means but they don't provide value to me anymore. There are new goals in mind that I need to focus on and maybe publishing a book. That's going to take time. I'm going to have to do maybe a page a night. It may take 270 days to do it. If I stick to it, that one page a day can get done.

Lastly, my father talked about vision. For leadership, the Bible is clear to say, “Without vision, people perish.” I can remember hearing vision as a young girl. I'm looking at these guys. They were born with it. They're on a different level. Their brains are wired differently and my dad was always like, “Vision is simply seeing what needs to be done and then doing it.” It had this future aspect but also very pragmatic tangible tactical aspects. Can you share with us what vision looks like for you and how you continue to hone and refine your vision?

It's not just the military. This translates to business as well. There's this concept of shared vision. “It's not just my vision. I want people that are working with me to understand that, ‘Though this is what I see, I'd also like to get that feedback from what other people's perceived problems with.’” This goes back a little bit with Major General Gronski. We were together overseas in Al-Ramadi for eighteen months of deployment. He had a very large problem set. This is how the military hierarchy is. It's the commander's intent.

It is the trickle-down effect of, “This is what the overall goal needs to accomplish.” In this large landscape, there are different departments, divisions, sectors, and people. Teams are handling different tasks in this large scope. If we all understand the higher intent and vision, and we still do our part that will help enable other coworkers, teams, and departments to also do their job supporting one another, and if we all stay on a task, we are able to achieve that final goal by doing our small little pieces.

When you're a leader, there's not necessarily a book of all the best possible solutions you could do. Every situation is unique. You have to analyze and understand what resources and constraints you have. Here’s one that I'd like to share. I was a company commander at the time and this is one of my favorite stories. In the National Guard, for those who aren't familiar with that, that's not their primary job. They are reservists working on a very part-time basis but they raise their right hand to serve in this country.

Every situation is unique. You have to analyze and understand what resources you have and what constraints you have.

They'll go wherever they need to go and do various types of missions, whether it's state, federal, overseas, or in the state, snow storms, flooding, or even types of civil disturbances or things like that. We often sometimes get called up to do some civil disturbance situations. Whenever you get these calls coming up where a large event is happening, maybe one of the conventions, or a large debate is going to happen somewhere, we at least know what's coming. Every time these come around, we have new people in our formation. People who used to be so knowledgeable and experienced are gone.

We have a younger crew or maybe some new generation who has never even done some of these things before. It's part of our vision to ensure that they're also trained in the best possible way. “Who are people in my company, formation, or team that can help enable and pass on some of this great knowledge?” Not every director or supervisor is an expert or has expertise in certain fields out there.

The one thing that I realized quickly is a large thing that we had to attend and do the presidential inauguration many years ago. We had to go down to DC and get deputized. We had to help the Secret Service and other people, keeping the safety of the public, the parade, and all the motorcades that were going through but also keeping people off the streets and making sure people were not interfering in any way. It was a very important type of mission.

One thing that we did as a shared vision was we understand the problem. We understand that there are numerous ways we can go about this. We were a very young crew here. I pulled together some of our senior enlisted sergeants, supervisors, or whatever you may call them in the civilian world. Some of them had a lot of this experience and we realize a lot of them had full-time positions. They were police or corrections officers. They had ties to other departments.

We wanted to leverage the resources in our community that have a lot of this expertise and together, we got a large exercise that we made up all by ourselves to then build towards before the big show where we had eleven departments to different police departments. We had state police, emergency services of all types, ambulances, dispatches, you name it. We put on a large-scale mock scenario training for 72 hours of various real-life scenarios. We’re writing a real script of things that could happen and making training as real as possible to meet the intent of the vision.

We made the training a lot harder than it was going to be at the inauguration. It was very stressful and intense. “If a bad scenario happened, this is how you would need to react to it.” It was very good with lots of stopping, pausing, and reflecting. “Let's talk about what happened. How can we improve that?” Also, having those after-action reviews to build forward. With vision, it's important to communicate the shared concept. Getting what people want to see, “How do they view success? How do I have you success? How should we marry the two?”

Shared Vision: With vision, it's important to communicate the shared concept.

Also, creating training that will ensure that people can meet not only the expectations of that's success and get them ready. Sometimes, with targets, time, and budget, there are a lot of restrictions. Things are always coming at a fast pace and it's hard to get training involved. It's proper. Some people will hand wave it. That's usually going to set up for a disaster, getting people to buy in early and then also having them be part of the training. I didn't create the entire training. I leveraged the resources I had and together with their hand in the pot, they wanted to own it.

They wanted to do it. They were happy with the product. That is a sense of belonging that we as a team can agree that we did a good thing. It got recognized which was not what we were looking for but the Army took notice. A lot of people got a good pat on the back here and there. I fortunately even got to go into the Pentagon. I got to receive a reward from former Chief of Staff General Mark Milley for putting on that large-scale exercise. Sharing that story, this is something that would be worked out for us. I hope that other people do the same. That was a very cool thing.

You talked about vision, the front end, and the back end. First of all, you said it was shared. I would tell people in leadership, “You all have to be viewing the goals through the same lens. If you have 100 different people, we all have our individual goals and motivations. We collectively all have to be tied to a shared vision.” I love that. Vision has to be shared and that combats that loneliness. I love that at the end you talked about an AAR or After Action Report for our readers.

One of the greatest things about the military was whenever we did anything, good, better, or ugly, we always did what we call a hot wash or an After Action Report. We sit there. We'd be very brutally honest with ourselves, “What do we own? What do we mess up?” I get with civilian corporations that I'm like, “We messed up but we're on to something else. Nothing changes until you identify the behavior and implement something.”

That’s what I love about it. The military was very honest with themselves, maybe not in the political realms but at the soldier level, we're very much about calling each other out. I love that provision. You're going to constantly be like, “We are all in. We can't take these 50 different mountains. Now that we've tried this vision, let's reevaluate. What do we keep doing? What do we stop doing? What are we doing that's already good?”

I love that because vision is a fluid thing. Your values are immutable but everything else is open for negotiation like contingency planning and the fog and friction war. I love that you talked about vision from a forward aspect but then you got to sit and evaluate it. I don't care if it was your vision. You have to look and see if that baby is ugly. What are you going to do to evaluate that?

Be honest about it. You love the project or a passion. If it didn't work, it didn't work. That's okay. What's the next step?

Root cause analysis and corrective actions. Otherwise, you're flying all over the place. It always baffles me. For readers, it’s ownership. I always say, “What can we own? What's going to happen differently the next time?” A lot of people are like, “It's out of our control.” I'm like, “There's always something. It's like saying you don't sin.”

When I was getting some of my clearances, they were like, “What if you broke the law?” I'm like, “I'm a law abider.” He's like, “You never went over the speed limit or rolled through a stop sign?” I’m like, “You're talking about those laws?” We can all own something in our lives that we're not at the bar of excellence that we claim that we are. I love that you talked about how values are shared. The outcome is all shared.

A part of it, together people feel a sense of belonging and responsibility to it as well. It's not just my vision anymore.

Shared Vision: When building a vision together, people feel a sense of belonging in responsibility to it as well.

Vision is multiple. Otherwise, it's your viewpoint. It's your vision when you get the team. If two or more are gathered, then it starts getting that synergistic thing. Thank you so much. We talked about loneliness, weariness, abandonment, and vision. Those are some wonderful examples, insights, and inspiration you gave us, as well as information. Is there anything else you'd like to share with us from a leadership perspective on why we have our readers here?

We hit so many good points. I feel that there are three skills when it comes to leadership that we all know. We have administrative, interpersonal, and conceptual skills. Out of those three buckets, it's important to self-analyze, where is the strongest skillset that you have out of those three? More than likely, there's probably one that is going to be where you feel the most comfortable. With administrative, that's the stuff where you're able to manage people and resources and show some technical competence and stuff because you've been on the job. You are getting the work done.

There's the inner personal side where I feel that some people are more emotionally intelligent. You're able to show empathy. You can manage people but anyone can do that because of your position and subordinates but how empathetic are you? How can you relate to what a person is experiencing on their job and their life? We all have different life experiences and also being able to manage conflict. That's also another part of the interpersonal and then the conceptual part. We were talking about creating visions, strategic planning, and problem-solving.

Some people may be more conceptual leaders. They're the ones who can make a vision pop. People get in on the strategy and plan it together, solving problems, framing the problem, and thinking of the best solution but then it goes into the administrative and interpersonal. Can you ensure that it is communicated properly or the resources are being managed properly or supporting the people to do the jobs and delegate?

I feel that is a revolving wheel in every phase of our life. There may be a certain part where we're better at one or the other. I feel that some jobs sometimes take us away from our people because there are certain responsibilities. We get siloed and there are also certain other things that we have projects we have to deal with. The higher you go up, the lonelier at the top. I feel that in my current phase of life, I'm with the team. I love that I can talk and relate.

It's great to go to work. It's good to have friends. It's good to see that when they have a problem, they're able to talk to me about it. When we're in that space sometimes, I'm not able to see conceptually some of the bigger picture because I'm more focused on the team right here in front of me where we're working together on certain goals but there are other things out there that I'll have to break away for a hot second, go to some of these meetings, and realize that there are certain things in the long-term calendar that we need to address. That's the balancing act.

As a leader, it's a self-assessment. Out of the administrative conceptual interpersonal, where do you feel is your best and weakest? If it's a weakest, does that require you to maybe do a sink, meet up, have a meeting, have a brainstorm session, or whatever it may be to fix one of those skills? Self-assessment and data are going to be your friend. That is the only way that we can truly reflect on feedback. Take it with a grain of salt and do not get upset by hearing that. Be honest with yourself, “Where are weak?” That's always the continual growth model for me.

Shared Vision: Self-assessment is your friend.

You talked about self-awareness. Where do you lead best? You alluded to it. We all have some of us who are more task, IQ, and EQ-focused. I even know when I was in high-tech fields before, my DISC was radically different than what it is now since I've been many years in coaching and teaching. I also think it's important to know where you serve best. I've been in Fortune 100 and the military. I'm in every bureaucracy known to mankind. I finally realized that I don't like bureaucracies. I'm a wild little Maverick. I had to look at myself and say, “Although I can climb the ladder, do I want to be in the big pond or am I most at home at this?”

I had to walk away from things and say, “I could have kept doing this.” In the end, as long as whatever you put your hand to and you do with all your might, you're going to be an asset or blessing anywhere but for me, I had to look at myself and say, “Do I want to get better or bigger?” “I want to get bigger.” “You got to make more money and be at the sea level.” I finally look at myself and go, “I don't want this. This is not one for me. Can I do it? Absolutely.”

It's important that you talk about self-awareness. I coached a lot of people through life transitions where they are going from working for somebody else to doing their thing. You get that calling and you can't stop thinking about it but it's a lot of different things. As you are going through yours, you have to be true to yourself.

Self-awareness is key. I love how you said, “Bigger versus better.” I'm going to use that.

Some people want to be bigger. I'm like, “That’s cool.” I want to get better in my little microcosm and niche. We learned that from the PhD. There's one thing in life like little nuggets of knowledge that I know better than anybody else. I like that. Somebody also builds on that but rather than be pontificating about everything, that's not what we're called to do. We have ChatGPT. You don’t need to do that. How can people get a hold of you? What’s the best way to connect with you?

I'm starting this journey myself. I’m putting myself out there more. I finished my degree so I'm working on different projects and stuff. LinkedIn is the best way to find me. The other thing is the gamification thing. I didn't get to talk too much about it briefly. For the younger crowd out there, a lot of kids are watching Twitch and stuff, which is fun. It's an on-stream service where a lot of people are playing games, doing reaction videos to certain things, watching a movie, and stuff like that.

It's a weird realm but one thing that I realized that I loved was spending time with my kids and doing things with them. I feel that with current technology, growing up, there are a few pictures of me and stuff but there are thousands of pictures of kids. I have my phone all the time capturing them. I want to show them the stuff and have these memories later on in life. It’s very cool in the video. There's a lot of great things.

With Twitch, I started doing a thing where I'm playing with my sons every so often which is great. It's awesome to see them first off be very good playing random video games together like Mario Kart and silly things like that. It's a good thing that I'm also leveraging as well. It's a good thing too. I've started doing this Twitch channel thing. I'm not too dedicated to it but if the readers out there have kids and stuff like that, they look for kid’s safe channels to watch. It's family-oriented stuff. It's a father and son hanging out, playing, engaging, and doing something cool.

It's an infant stage but I've noticed as I'm teaching, as a professor and stuff, I'm interacting with the younger students out there in their twenties and they're telling me about all these things and how a lot of them grew up watching YouTube more than anything. They didn't watch Nickelodeon, Disney, or something like that. They're watching other videos on TikTok and all that stuff. There are a lot of channels out there that are very safe, family-oriented, and things like that. That's a little passion project on the side. If you're on Twitch at all or if anybody out there even viewed that, come check out our channel.

I saw your Twitch link that came through. I was checking it out. That's very cool. You nailed it. I can't believe it's your first. You did tremendously. There is so much wonderful wisdom. I want to thank you for being a part of this, Lee.

Thank you so much for having me on. This is a great time.

You're welcome. To our tremendous readers out there, where would we be without you? If you like what you read, please hit the like and subscribe button. If you do us the honor of a review, it means everything. It helps other people who are looking for, “How can I be a tremendous leader find us?” We would be so thankful for that.

Please reach out to Lee. Make sure you connect with him. The goal is the people you meet in the book you read. You make sure you get a hold of Lee. I know you are out there paying the price of leadership. We're right there with you. Keep on paying the price of leadership. Have a tremendous rest of the day. Bye.

Important Links

• Dr. Lee Hardin – LinkedIn

• Major General John Gronski – Past Episode

• Twitch – Sidechopper

About Lee Hardin

Lee Hardin holds a Ph.D. in Educational Psychology from Temple, and a Master's in Instructional Technology from Bloomsburg. He is currently an active duty army officer with 23 years of service in the PA Army National Guard and is an Iraq Veteran (2005-2006 Ar Ramadi, Iraq).

Lee is also an Adjunct Professor in the College of Education & Human Development at Temple. Research Interests in Executive Function/Self-Regulation, Gamification & Instructional Design. He is also the father of three boys and has been happily married for 11 years.

Episode 175 - Nicole Pearson - Leaders On Leadership

Leadership isn't about the destination; it's about the journey of growth, resilience, and putting others first. In this episode, we hear Nicole Pearson’s incredible journey. Nicole's story is not just about the real estate market; it's about the resilience of the human spirit and the determination to make a positive impact on others' lives. She unpacks the true meaning of leadership, touching on the challenges, sacrifices, and rewards that come with it. Nicole shares her personal experiences, including moments of loneliness and weariness, and how she overcame them to achieve her dreams. Discover the power of vision and how it shapes your path to success and learn how Nicole maintains her vision while nurturing a thriving team. Tune in now and get ready to pay the price of leadership.

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Watch the episode here

Listen to the podcast here

Nicole Pearson - Leaders on Leadership

I am tremendously excited to welcome my dear friend and professional associate, Nicole Pearson. Welcome.

Thank you for having me.

Let me tell you a little bit about this tremendous guest you're about to read. Nicole is a full-time and full-service realtor. She's been that for several years. She has resided in South Central, Pennsylvania. She strives for exceptional customer service and relentless hard work. Those are the reasons for how successful she is. She loves being collaborative with other agents during transactions and assisting new agents while they are learning. That's part of her recipe for success and why she loves her career. Nicole, I’m delighted to have you here for many reasons.

I'm grateful to be here. I’m glad that you thought of me to have me on the show. I think highly of you. You are one of the most tremendously amazing people I know.

Thank you, Nicole. I'll give you my sponsorship dollars after this for saying that, but let me tell you something. She's in South Central, PA. We're both close to the Enola Boiling Springs area, the nexus of the universe. The original Garden of Eden is what I call the place we live. I met Nicole when I was moving back several years ago when my father was passing away, and I thought, “It's time to come back home to continue the legacy and take care of Mom.”

I reached out to Nicole because I was looking at homes. I reached out to many people. Guess who got back to me? It’s Nicole Pearson. I see her hustle clock and the word relentless. I have never known a more hardworking realtor than Nicole. She helped me find my beautiful place in Boiling Springs, right on Front Street. It’s like a little Hallmark movie where I met my betrothed, my neighbor down the street.

If Nicole hadn't found me that house, this whole secession of events wouldn't have happened. After we got hitched several years ago, Nicole helped me sell my house and find our new dream house out in Enola. Every time I look at the heaven on earth that I'm blessed with, I think of you, that you are in your zone of genius and helping people find the homes that they love so much.

I am glad that you chose me, not because I answered the phone. That helps, and that gets it started. That's a key part of real estate. It seems to be missing in a lot of aspects of it. That's a key part of opening the door. Coming to know you and Mike has been wonderful because you guys are amazing people. Letting me go through all these different phases and steps of your life has been great.

My schedule is insane. I did manage to wedge out to go to your wedding, which Scott and I were ever thankful to to be included in. I watch who you have become and strive to be that admired and well renowned is what you have made for yourself because of hard work. I love everyone to be successful, but there is something great about successful, strong women in business.

I am excited to talk about all things leadership with you, Nicole. My father wrote a speech called The Price of Leadership. It's one of the ones that has been the most downloaded and listened to. He was poignant about leadership. It was bittersweet. There are a lot of high highs and low lows, but there's a price you're going to have to pay if you truly are going to be a leader, not as what I call a LINO, a leader in name only.

The first price he talked about is loneliness. We have all heard that it's lonely at the top and heavy is the head that wears the crown. What does loneliness mean for you as a leader? Could you share a time in your career when you went through a season of it, how you got through it, and what you would like to share with our readers about the topic of loneliness?

It's funny because I have this conversation a lot with realtors once I see them becoming successful. It’s mostly female realtors. We have a little bit more of a trickiness with this. Once you become successful, people look at you differently. You'll have a few people you've come up with in the business that remains tight with you. That's a small few people. Others are like, “How did she get there? What did she have to do to get that?” It's real estate.

Once you become successful, people look at you differently.

Here's an idea. Pick up the phone, talk to people, and pay attention to what they're saying. It does get lonely because, if they don't say it to your face, you know that it's being said. I went through that when I was probably in the business for several years. I hit the ground running. I wasn't from here. I was a stay-at-home mom. I knew about sales, but I didn't know about sales, but I knew houses. You put yourself out there and go. Because of that and the attention I paid, the business started coming right away.

People are like, “They’re feeding her leads. They're this or that.” I get the fewest leads handed to me because they have a tendency to want to give them more to people who need it. I'm consistent. It does get lonely because you think of the people who were your friends as you were coming up, and you quickly realize that they're not that. That was hard because it does get lonely because I feel like I'm a good person. I'm not a devout go to church, but I feel like I'm a good Christian because I treat people well. I treat them with kindness. I always try to do what's right regardless of what that effect is going to have on me.

When people are talking about you, and you know they're talking about you, a big one I hear was, “It's the Nicole show.” I've come to learn. I have a big personality, but I'm also embracing that there's nothing wrong with that because am I going to be like, “No, let me.” You want to know that I know what I'm doing. You want me to be confident in myself to be confident in you. That has been a big one.

The most recent I heard was, and you probably know this, I merged with a team who came over to work with me at Howard Hanna. I never feel like I need to be number one. That's the biggest thing people don't realize about me. A lot of calls I got were like, “Why would you join a team? Why isn't it the Nicole Pearson team? Why isn't this?” I don't need to be in the spotlight. I want to be walking side by side with other agents, my partners, and team members. We're equal regardless of whether I sell more than some of them or I don't. We are equal. To me, that's important. I don't need to be the Nicole Pearson team and have that out there.

People are like, “Did you hear about the team? I don't think it's going to last.” I'm like, “Thank you for that.” I know it's going to last. Failure is not in my name. This is what happens when you become successful. I take that as like, “I've made you nervous. Our team has made you nervous.” Look out because Central, PA, we're out here. We might not be on every billboard and radio station, but we're here. We're going to do a silent attack.

I appreciate you brought that up because there is an aspect of loneliness. There's good loneliness and bad loneliness. You brought up an aspect of the bad loneliness where it's professional jealousy. Whether it's a woman thing, I've seen it happen to men. It happens a lot with women, but it is something to be aware of our leaders reading out there. It's going to happen to everybody. I look at even Jesus. They were like, “Who is he? He's Joseph's son. Who is he to tell us?”

If you realize that it's going to be there and you have to be you, that's on them. Professional jealousy is a self-imposed emotion on their part. You know authentically who you are. I always liked it because I saw who truly was my ally and my advocate who wanted my success more than even me and who are the other people as you're climbing the ladder and coming out of Mount Majority, you leave the rest behind.

It hurts. It shouldn't be that way, but it's part of who we are as human nature. I know I've judged people and been jealous. It's something to be aware of as a leader it's okay. It's part of it. It means you are stepping out. Stay humble, which you are, and stay real. I appreciate you sharing that because a lot of leaders are like, “Why doesn't everybody celebrate my success?” I'm like, “Who told you everybody was going to celebrate your success? You have to do it because you feel it's your calling whether anybody celebrates it or not.” I appreciate you dialing that in because I don't think we've talked about that on the show.

I was on the phone before this. I got off to get on the show with a client earlier. She called me around 10:30. I've known her for several years. I've been through her dating, marriage, children, and multiple homes. Her mom unfortunately passed away. She's like, “I need motherly advice and womanly advice.” I always have time for her. She's like, “Am I crazy?”

We went on and talked about things. We talked about being a mom and the jealousy that can come from that. Moms don't talk about the real craziness in their life. It is okay to be like, “I don't like my child now because they're being nuts.” No mom is going to tell another mom that because we have to have the persona that we have it all under control.

A lot of times, the people who look like they have it most under control don't. As women, we talk about supporting each other. As a humanity, we talk about supporting each other, but I see less of it. It is sad. That's what I said to her. I said, “You are a good woman. You wouldn't be who you are if your mom didn't do a great job raising you.” I'm honored that she looked at me to come to me for this. I'm like, “Stay true to you. Don't put so much pressure on yourself.”

It's okay if you don't vacuum now. It's okay if you decide to take the kids through McDonald's. It's okay if your kids are off the charts, and you're like, “I don't like them.” Don't put that pressure on yourself. Don't, for one moment, think that somebody else isn't going through that. It is the same thing in any aspect of life, whether it's a real estate career or motivational speaking and writing books. You're always going to look at someone else and think, “They have it going on.” Maybe they don't. You don't know.

Grow A Team: Whether it's a real estate career or motivational speaking and writing books, you're always going to look at someone else and think they have it going on, but maybe they don't. You don't know.

You said, “Don't put on yourself.” As you are saying that, I got an email from somebody I'd put in to speak. They're like, “We don't think that topic would be good. We pass.” I'm thinking, “What? It's all good. It didn't work out for whatever reason. I'm going to listen to that and see if there's any feedback that I can own for it. There wasn't. I'm going to move on.”

Sometimes, we are the worst enemies as far as making ourselves lonely because we think, “I'm the only one going through it.” For every speaker getting a yes letter, there are twenty getting a no. It's all okay. Press on. You're not the only one. I love that you shared that. How sweet that you're involved in people's lives. That's why I love you and why we're more than a transactional relationship. We go way deeper than that.

I had a client call me at 10:00. He's like, “I know you said that you don't have a life. I figured it would be okay to call.” My clients are my life. Thank goodness I have a supportive family that understands it. There's an occasion that my husband was like, “Could you set the phone down and make it through a dinner?” I'm trying a little more now. That’s why it was time for me to expand to something better.

It wasn't that I needed to sell more or build my brand more. It was that I wanted to find people who were like-minded like me, who had the knowledge that my clients would be okay if I went away for a weekend and they wanted to see a house because I don't ever want my client to have to wait on me. I want to get them in right away. My daughter and husband are both licensed, but if we're all away at the same time, I need to fall on other people and our family vacations together all the time.

It was with the thought that I was like, “Will my clients be able to relate to them? Will these partners I'm taking on be able to give them the same confidence that I do?” I'm not shuffling off my people at all. They still get me. I still do all of the negotiating. I had a deal going with an agent. I'm like, “I realize you never saw the house because someone showed them the house. You wrote the contract and negotiated it, never having seen the house. A third person negotiates the reply to the inspection. I don't understand how any of this can be good for a client, but it's working for you. Who am I?”

I'm like, “In this instance, where you're firing off an email to me that you want a $20,000 price reduction, do you not think that it is beneficial to everybody involved to call me and say, ‘Nicole, this is where we're at. This is what we would like to do. What are your thoughts?’ Instead of opening my email, and here it is.”

I'm hoping this is the second time I've had to have this conversation with this team, but I am hoping that at some point, it sinks in. I sit back and go, “Why am I helping them?” It benefits me and my clients because an open line of communication is better. After a phone call to them, we met in the middle. We found a happy place, and we're closing.

Grow A Team: An open line of communication is better ultimately after a phone call to clients.

You brought up the main difference between being a leader and moving into leadership. No doubt you're a leader. Everybody reading this is a leader, but engaging in leadership means it's no longer about you. It's not the Nicole Show. It's not the Tremendous Tracey Show, but it's about how you get things done with a team.

This brings us to our next topic, weariness. Many times, we as leaders, especially women leaders, are juggling many plates that we become burned out, chronically fatigued, frustrated, and let certain areas of our lives go to pot thing, literally or figuratively. Not me, but it happens. What do you think about weariness, and how do you with all this going on?

I love that you talked about the team because you said, “I want to be able if I want to go and do things that I can hand stuff off.” That is the goal. That's where you go from being a leader, a singular entity, to leadership, which is a whole group of people that are able to function without you. Nobody knows who the leader is because you're all this collective team. How do you combat weariness, Nicole? You're on all the time. You are a hustler. How do you stay hustling and not falling down and burning out?

There are a couple of things here that you brought up, which is amazing because I'm going to get into a little bit here. I do hit the proverbial brick wall. For about twice a year, I am mentally spent because we're on all the time. When you write a contract, especially in this market we've been in for the past several years, you are not only thinking of the client, you're like, “What are the five other agents going to be writing? How is this going to be?” Your brain is always going. There is no break. I talk in my sleep about real estate. My husband one morning said, “I almost bought the house you were selling in your dreams last night. You did a great job.”

I genuinely love what I do. To me, it is not a job. It is a career and a choice I made. I tell that to people who are thinking of getting into real estate. I'm like, “Don't look at me as the norm because I'm not the norm.” I chose this. You also have to know that it does dictate a little bit more in your life than something else would.”

We have four owners on our team. One of the four is two people. It's a husband and wife team. It’s technically five, but four entities own it. When we got together, we were like, “This is going to be your role.” A few months into it, I sat back because I was, as people called it, a lone wolf for several years. I can't believe you did this. I never thought you would do it. How is that going to work in all these personalities?

I sat back and watched it all happen. I didn't say a whole lot. I was like, “We can do this better.” We had our owners meeting, and we did a list. I'm like, “Everybody, let's make a list, not out loud, on paper for each of us and what you think all of our roles should be.” We took away our names. We took away the team manager and training specialist. I said, “We are all good at all of this. We are team owners and co-managers.” We wanted our agents to know that you can come to any one of us. We all know this stuff. We also needed to figure out where each of us was the strongest.

The funny thing is one of us didn't get to do it because she was homesick, but four of us did it. When we put it all together on one sheet, we all came up with the same thing for each one of us. We had to do it on ourselves, where our strengths and weaknesses were. Because we can do that, and we see that in each other, we have the ability to become even stronger together. We're not growing separately. Even I was a little nervous of, “Can I do this whole team?” It has been many years of me like, “Go.”

I've embraced it. I negotiate all my contracts. I write all my stuff. We have an amazing transaction coordinator. For the behind-the-scenes paperwork, I don't even have to think about it. I have partners I can count on if something happens. I had the last two falls. Knock on wood. This is the first fall in several years that I haven't had surgery.

I had to have surgery in 2022. It was a knee replacement. That's a long recovery. The year before was a hysterectomy. Do I have cancer? Do I not have cancer? Thank goodness I didn't. That was the best phone call ever. That also is a long recovery. I didn't have the support of all these people. It is amazing. We are all leaders. I forgot where I was going. What was the question?

It’s the team with weariness.

I'm not weary anymore.

I can tell that because you get to the point where you grow. Number one, we're not meant to be alone. One of my favorite verses that I had at the wedding is Ecclesiastes 4:2. It’s like, “A quarter of three strands is not easily broken.” When you weave together your support network, you can go through 90 million times more stress than you could before. Leanna Horne has one of my favorite quotes. It’s like, “It's not the load that breaks you down. It's the way you carry it.” When you have the right team shouldering alongside you, you can do anything. It's not 1 + 1 = 2. It’s 1 + 2 = 11, 111 or 1,000. It's synergistic.

For leaders out there, we have this great man theory. It’s like, “I was with them, and I'm the one.” Maybe you think that in your 30s and 40s when you're out there lighting the world on fire and burning the candle at both ends. The older you get, the more you realize, “Life is way more tremendous when done in fellowship with other leaders with a shared vision.”

Let's be honest. I turned 52. I had to think about that. I'm like, “We should stop celebrating birthdays.” I realized once you hit 50, we should not celebrate. I realized we have to celebrate so we remember how old we are.

The best years are coming.

I am starting to have a life a little bit again. That's new for me. I’m like, “I can plan something.” For a while, we wouldn't plan a vacation we couldn't drive to because we would miss planes. We weren't making it. The other reality is I'm not getting any younger. The buyers get younger. It doesn't matter how much knowledge I have and how good I am at what I do. I'm smart enough to know that I need to start training other people to have that knowledge and information. Build them up and help them be successful. Hopefully, they'll stay with me. If they don't, then I wish them nothing but the best.

It's about supporting us. Honestly, more agents are properly trained out there, which is why I do help agents from other brokerages because if they're not trained or they don't know, that's not beneficial to me. I'd rather people be educated out there in the field because it reflects on all of us in this industry. We can train people. I said to one of our agents under us, I'm like, “You may only be 21, but you will be me someday. I have no doubt about it.” She has the drive, ambition, and enthusiasm, and I'm like, “I have no problem giving you all of my knowledge and information.”

That's the mark of a true leader. The number of other leaders raise up. You're hitting it. This is about the time in life when you start looking back and saying, “Okay.” What did I always hear? The 20 to 40 is the learning. The 40 to 60 is the earning. The 60 to 80 is the yearning. The 80 to 100 is your blowout, and do the highest level of service. You're in that where you're earning power, but you're also starting. I'm glad you're doing it at 52. That's progressive and evolved, Nicole. Good for you.

You do know that I plan to sell real estate until I die.

I know. You'll be signing the last contract. Go to heaven.

I had a client say to me, “I certainly hope you live a long time because I don't want to have to go find another realtor.”

You're not going to be selling another house for me because, as Mike said, “The only time I'm leaving this house is going to be in a hearse.” I'm like, “Amen, we're in it.” You might find us a second or third.

We had that conversation when you bought it. We wanted to make sure it was your forever home, and it's amazing. I learned so much from our dear Molly Garman, who sold real estate until she passed. I'm not as tough as her, but one of the biggest things I learned from her was she did not give her respect willingly, not unwillingly, but as an agent, I had to earn it and work for it. Once you had it, you had it. God loves her.

I know there's a 50/50 in Carlisle of the love and hate from Molly Garman. She said what she said, what she thought, and that was it. She fought for her clients. She was tough. What an amazing role model for me to have starting out in the business. God rest her soul, but I planned fully to still be selling real estate as she was at that time.

My father spoke up until he lost his voice, but he whispered, “Finish the race strong.” That's what you do. We did loneliness and weariness. The next topic he talked about was abandonment. For us puppy lovers, abandonment has a negative connotation, fear of abandonment, but that's not the abandonment we're talking about.

What my father said was, “We need to stop spending time and hanging out with people and thinking about things we like and want to do and think about in favor of what we ought and need.” It was about pruning out the non-essentials, the things that weren't the highest use of our time, and the things that weren't going to get us to where we wanted to go.

Nicole, with all the different things, people come to you who were like, “Try this. Do this marketing. Do this team. Advertise here.” How do you stay tightly focused on your clientele, what you want to do, and your zone of genius? Somebody told me, “Tracey, don't be a jack of all trades, master of none. The more niche you go, the more you grow. You define that.” How do you stay so tightly focused? So

The joke is I'm a squirrel. We have a sign in our office about squirrels. You have to be a squirrel to be successful in real estate because it is constantly changing from minute to minute. You have many plates in the air spinning, and you have to figure out how to focus them all into the same spot and stack them neatly.

You have to be a squirrel to be successful in real estate because it is constantly changing from minute to minute.

My phone rings constantly with the next, latest, greatest, and best things. I don't buy my leads. I don't pay for lead generation. I do a mix of old school and new school. Here's a novel idea. Let's have a personal touch. Send a newsletter quarterly with actual information in it and things people like. Do a customer appreciation event. If I were to sign up for everything that I get a phone call for in a week, I don't know how anybody could keep track of it.

Here's the question. Even if you have somebody in in-house sales who's emailing those people and trying to be in touch with them, are you giving them that personal feeling they need? People forget real estate is personal. If you get married and you have children, you buy a house. Those are huge decisions. Everyone was like, “It's technology. The Millennials are all about the internet. They want to do that.” I'm like, “No.”

I did a class at a convention several years ago about dealing with Millennials. I'm like, “You're missing the boat here. You think that they're only digital. They're not. Yes, we have to text them to tell them that we're calling them and to please answer their phone because they're not going to listen to voicemail and call you back, but they are not as connected as we think.”

I pay attention to what is going on and what the needs are of people. I don't buy into every platform out there that's offering the next latest and greatest thing. I am staying true to what I have done from day one, which is answering the phone, responding to emails, responding to text messages, and sending out newsletters. I hand-sign 1,000 Christmas cards. I start in October, and I hand-sign them.

When it was smaller, I could do hand notes. Now, it's like carpal tunnel. It's a real thing. I at least hand-sign them. Those personal things go a long way because it is personal. With this younger generation, we're seeing that their parents are more involved in house buying. Don't focus on those clients. Focus on the whole family. Make everyone know they're important in this decision. That's probably the key. I don't have to get onto the next, each latest and greatest, because I have the here and now that has been the greatest for many years for me. Why would I change that?

I love that you talk to anybody. Most of our audience is in commission-based real estate, life insurance, financial services, and network marketing. You get it. When you build that book of business, it's all repeats and referrals. Even for speaking in publishing, I don't go out and advertise. So and so heard me or published with me. How'd you hear about me? You get to that point because it's relationship-based.

I'm like you. I love technology. ChatGPT has changed my life, but I'm never going to stop being able to use this mind, connect with people, and hug them. You're unstoppable because you have the resource of technology combined with the personal touch. We're not robots. We're still flushing blood with emotions. We still have needs. You're right. A home is a personal thing and one of the biggest investments most people are going to make in their lives.

This is where I was super smart. When I was looking at the people to partner with, I was smart enough to partner with a few tech-savvy people. That's what we're honing in on a couple of platforms. We don't want to be on every platform. It's too much because people slip through the cracks. People talk about bad experiences more than they talk about good experiences. They're going to remember that more than the good.

We don't want to have too many platforms. We're honing in on which platforms are the best for us to focus on marketing. We have a huge marketing budget that we're like, “Let's do some paper, maybe billboard, and this for digital.” We're blending the old with the new because I don't know about you, but in real estate, realtors were successful a long time ago, before there was the internet.

That's what I tell people. I'm like, “You realized several years ago none of this was around?” It was the dawn of mankind up until several years ago. We have one of our authors who came out with a book in 2022, 94 years young. He is like, “Tracey, I'm going to print off the sheet and mail it to people.” He drove sales through the roof.

Never underestimate. It wasn't his older people. They got it in the mail, and they're like, “Otherwise digital, it's busy.” There are times when I'm not on social media, LinkedIn, or even in my email for days, and it's gone. It's good, especially since tech is another resource. It means enabling, but it's not the answer. It certainly will never eliminate the need for a personal touch.

There is power in print. You see what you touch with what you do. He's an example. Even for our fundraiser coming up, we do an ad in the Pennysaver. Let me tell you. Those bingo people came out of the woodwork. I said, “Let's try this in real estate.” You can tell hardcore bingo people, “I'm going to go for fun.” I'm like, “Go for fun.” Some of them are scary.

I'm like, “This is the power of paper.” Even if it's once or twice a year, the full-page ad. I've had recognition come through from Lebanon of like, “I saw your full-page ad.” Normally, it's nothing in particular, but it's there. They save it. I don't know how often you come across it. I come across it more. I have clients that don't have cell phones and computers.

I have it, too. They'll call me, and they want me to process an order. They don't even pay online. Are you kidding me? A huge portion of our audience is 60-plus. They're like, “Yeah, I’m not doing it.” I'm like, “I'll be here to help you out.” If I didn't have that ability or have a number and let everything bots do it, I'd lose them.

It's being evolved to blending it all.

I have a true bingo story. I'm not going to say what town I was in. I played bingo once at a VFW hall and I made a mistake. It was an honest mistake, but I was never more scared. I said, “I'm never playing bingo again because I'm not savvy enough. They go in there. They're ready.” One of my friends is like, “Go, come play.” I forget what happened. I didn't call something. It's like poker. I'm not going to play poker because if I lose the table, I can go to war, but I can't handle the pressure of poker or bingo.

Your mistake was going to VFW because they do bingo every week. Did you see the people that had their nomes and their five different daubers?

I should've known right then. They were like, “I went to war with these people. It doesn't matter. This is bingo. This is a whole other thing. Get out.” I was like, “Respect. I'm with you.”

The beautiful thing about this is that we have other brokerages. Some of their agents are sponsoring. From three other brokerages, they have reserved a table for ten. It was funny because, in 2023, some of the Hannas can't come out because I picked a date that they're at a manager's meeting in Ohio. I get it. In 2022, they were there. They were like, “Nicole, I can't believe how many agents you pulled in from other brokerages.” I'm like, “It’s because we can get along. We are competing, but we don't have to not get along.”

That's where people miss the boat because I'll even hear from AJ. Carlisle is small. Everybody knows each other. We compete, but we don't have to be ugly about it. Let's be good human beings. Let's come together for the greater good of the children in our backyard. There have been multiple agents in this region whose children, not Howard Hanna, because it's anyone, have benefited from the money we raise at Hershey or Harrisburg. Let's put all the competition aside and let's have a good time. That's been nice for the area because they're like, “We did it in the spring. We're doing it in the fall. Can we reserve another table? That was great.” They liked seeing these other brokerages there. That's what you want.

Grow A Team: Let's just be good human beings. Let's come together for the greater good of the children in our backyard.

Competitiveness is so ‘90s. It's collaborating. There are plenty of homes, buyers, sellers, and wealth.

There are not plenty of homes.

The way they're building in South Central, PA, come on.

Who can afford them?

That's a whole other episode. I have no idea. I thank God we got in when we did. I couldn't get qualified to buy a home now. We did loneliness, weariness, and abandonment. Last is vision. I remember growing up listening to people like Zig Ziglar and Og Mandino. I'm like, “These guys are visionary. They're different than me.”

My dad was like, “Tracey, vision is two things. Seeing, having a dream, having a goal, and having a plan to get it done. it's vision, but it's means.” I'm like, “That puts it much more into something that Tracey can do.” How do you keep your vision? You went through some transitions. You've grown yourself and your team. How do you craft the future for Nicole and your Howard Hanna team?

First off, every day above ground is a good day. We're going to start with that. Everything changes quickly in every environment and the world, and you don't know. We're in such a volatile time. Things are crazy. Even with this emergency broadcast test, everyone got theories. They’re like, “What's going on that they're testing the whole country?”

Every day above ground is a good day.

My vision is to continue growing as one unit. We're four legs to a table. We're balanced. We got that. We're growing with the same goals to something better and greater. Does that mean selling more real estate? Sure, that's going to come with it. That's great, but building something unbreakable. The one thing we've learned, especially since there are four of us women and we're strong women, is full honesty.

We got that out of the way. With that, we're going to be unstoppable. We want to continue to grow the team into something that people come to us and say, “We want to work with you. We want to be on your team. We see what you're doing, and we want to be part of something better and greater. We don't want to grow a team to have a bunch of people to say we have a bunch of people. We want to grow a team that has the same core morals, values, and beliefs. The client always has to come first, even if that means you may not get a paycheck. You will because you put them first. They're going to be loyal to you and refer you. It's growing our culture.

Howard Hanna has an amazing culture. One of my partners said to a new recruit that we brought on, “I always knew it. I want to bleed green like Nicole. I can't describe it to you until you're here and you feel the culture. You get the loyalty.” I want to have our team together grow in that same culture that Howard Hanna has fostered for many years and has grown into a tremendous company. Have our team follow in that same footsteps to be customer service driven, and the business will come.

I love that you talked about how when you get in there, it finds you. We go out looking for things, but my dad, with life insurance, it found him. When it found him, he went all in. When you dial in and you finally find what you're looking for, even if you were, it's like your heart recognizes it. They recognize the team, the service they're providing, the enabling collective around them, and Howard Hanna with their reputation.

When those things all coalesce, I love that you said you don't know it until you see it and you feel it. Anybody can work anywhere and get a paycheck. You don't need Howard Hanna to have a good life, but you need something to make you feel like you're showing up for a shared vision with a collaborative team that is grounded. It's called value congruence. You can share those values. You get into this higher level of team building. You could do things for people, where it's not just transacting real estate.

It's a lifestyle. Being with Howard Hanna, being on my own, and having the team are lifestyle choices I made with the team. I'm learning to maintain a little bit of life, and still, my clients come first, but being able to say, “I am out of town, but I have these amazing people that can take you out there. I have my computer.” Everyone knows I don't even go to dinner at a restaurant without my computer in the car. I want to find that happy medium and share it with others and see it. Howard Hanna affords that.

Real Estate is a lifestyle.

There have been times when I've been like, “Oh.” That's loneliness and exhaustion. I'm like, “I'm right where I'm supposed to be. I feel it because of what's been instilled.” That's what I want to share with everybody who comes, works, or deals with. In my bio that you read there, I am not great at writing things. You've read my emails. They're a long run-on sentence of a paragraph, but that's okay. It's a running joke in my house, and I've embraced it.

I was on the phone with one of my best friends. She's at another brokerage. I said, “I have to write this. This was my highlights that I put in.” While we were talking, she typed it up and sent it to me. I'm like, “Is this what you believe?” She's like, “It is. I want you to copy, paste, and put that in there.” I'm like, “Okay.” It was nice to see, and I thanked her. I'm like, “Thank you so much. That's what you see in me.”

That's why we have other people because we can't read our own labels. I have my own coaches because I can help others, but you have to have others help you. The other thing is, Nicole, I'm going to get you set up with ChatGPT. It'll write a bio for you that will flip you out.

I'm ready for it.

I'm not kidding.

I need to refresh my bio and a new picture.

It'll do everything. It'll change your life. It's amazing. Nicole, thank you for that. We talked about the beautiful descriptor of vision. As we wrap this up, is there anything else we have not touched on about paying the price of leadership you would like to share with our tremendous readers?

Paying the price of leadership is good and bad. I have come to learn that, even when you're successful, and leadership is many different things, remember that you're human. I have to remember I am human. I cannot be everything for everyone all the time. I want to be. I do, but sometimes I can't. It's like picking where you keep moving forward and what may be left behind. I'm starting to come into that role and not because of the team, because that's where I was going, and the team was the next step to get me there. Whoever you are, stay true to who you are, and success will surely follow.

My husband and I joke because if we didn't have bad luck in a lot of senses, we'd have no luck. He's like, “Can we get one break? I don't understand.” I said, “Do you know what our break is? Our break is that through everything in our relationship, we've come out strong as a partner for many years together.” I was 17, and now I'm 52. We have two amazing kids, and our family is close. I said, “Every time we turn around, it seems like something's going amiss. We can look back and be thankful that we have so much of a blessing with our family unit.” That's where I say, “Keep being true and don't sweat the small stuff.” Sometimes, it gets to be big stuff.

The greatest blessing of all is what you have there. Thank you for sharing that. I was reading Oswald Chambers's The Devotion and he's like, “You have to keep the vision. God will take you and prepare you. You will launch into whatever when he says you're ready.” We don't know it all. It is good to focus on how far you've come versus how far you have to go because otherwise, women like us are achievers. Until our last breath, we’ll be like, “I should have done this.”

I am not going to have what I should have because I don't have a bucket list.

I'm sorry. I want to do this. We're going to keep doing it.

God has a plan. I said to my client friend, “Let go and let God. He's going to guide you. It may not be always the best, but there's a reason you're taking that path.” My stepfather was an alcoholic. I said to her, “Do you know the Serenity Prayer?” He's like, “Huh?” I said, “Let me finish brushing my teeth and I'll do the Serenity Prayer. Do you know how many times a week I say that? It’s because you have to. You can't let every crummy thing that happens consume you. Push forward. Move on. Don’t live in the past. That baggage is heavy.”

Grow A Team: You can't let every crummy thing that happens consume you. Just push forward and move on past that baggage that is heavy.

You need to let it go and keep moving up. That's a tremendous way, Nicole. That's why you're tremendous. How do people get ahold of you? I will put your information in the show notes, but what do you think, website or LinkedIn? What's your preferred method of contact if somebody's looking to hang out with you because you're cool or looking for a tremendous realtor in South Central Pennsylvania? I know everybody is coming to South Central, PA.

My husband says my phone is my pacemaker and my lifeline. You're going to put the link in there, which is great. It comes right to me. It is on 24/7, but cell phone texting is (717) 609-7619, or call the Howard Hanna office in Carlisle and ask for me.

Nicole, I can't thank you enough. It has been such a joy. I learned so much more about you. I already knew a lot. I hope God gives us 45 more years of wonderful friendship and we blow the roof off our dreams and goals together. Thank you for taking the time to share with our readers. I know they got a lot of information and inspiration from you.

Thank you so much for having me on and considering me for this. It is a great honor to be here on your show.

Thank you again, Nicole, and to our readers out there. I want to thank you so much for paying the price of leadership. If you like what you read, please be sure to hit the subscribe button. If you would do us the honor of a review, we'd be thankful. Those reviews mean the world. Other people can tune in and live a tremendous life.

Share with somebody who may need to read who is going through a season of loneliness and weariness how they can truly pay the price of vision and come out on the other side stronger and better. Remember, you're going to be the same person several years from now that you are now, except for two things. The people you meet and the books you read. Hang around with people like Nicole. Connect with her. Thank you so much for being a part of our tremendous tribe, and have a tremendous rest of the day.

Important Links

• Nicole Pearson

• LinkedIn – Nicole Pearson

About Nicole Pearson

Nicole Pearson has been a full-time and full-service realtor for 16 of the 19 years she has resided in South Central PA. Her secret to success is exceptional customer service and relentless hard work. Nicole thrives on being collaborative with the other agents during transactions and assisting new agents while they are learning the business. She loves her career and it shows!

Episode 170 - Mike Capuzzi - Leaders On Leadership

True leadership isn't defined by titles; it's about unleashing your influence, distilling wisdom into bite-sized impact, and leaving an indelible mark of positive change. In this episode, we have the remarkable Mike Capuzzi, author, nonfiction book coach, and short book publisher, to touch on essential topics that every leader can relate to. He discusses how to overcome challenges like loneliness, weariness, and abandonment while fostering a strong sense of vision that propels you forward. But more than that, Mike also uncovers the magic of short books by touching on the power of brevity and its unmatched ability to capture attention in a world full of distractions. He reveals his "magic kit" – a trio of short books on topics like gratitude, working together, and more – available exclusively for our listeners. Join us and learn how to leverage your unique experiences and stories to inspire change!

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Watch the episode here

Listen to the podcast here

Mike Capuzzi - Leaders On Leadership

I have a tremendous guest Mike Capuzzi. I connected with Mike, Jeff and Lancaster had me on the Lancaster podcast. As soon as it was done, just like what wonderful and tremendous people do, it's all about the people you meet. We're going to talk about the book she read. He connected me with Mike. Mike, welcome.

Tracey, thank you very much. You are an awesome guest. You are a tremendous guest on my podcast a few weeks back, and I don't say that lightly. I texted Jeff afterward. I said, “Thank you. That was a great interview.”

That's what we do here with our tremendous tribe. We pay it forward and introduce other tremendous people. For our audience, I want to tell you a little bit about Mike Capuzzi. He's an author, a nonfiction book coach, and a short book publisher for business owners, entrepreneurs, and CEOs looking to leverage the power of being a short helpful book author. Are you beginning to see the connection between us?

Since 1998, Mike has helped thousands of business owners market their businesses smarter. Bite-Sized Books is his book publishing company, founded on his proven formula for creating short helpful books, he calls them Shooks, for business owners, entrepreneurs, and corporate leaders.

Shooks are the ideal type of book to publish because they're easy and fast to create. It can be read in about an hour and offer helpful ways for readers to connect with the author. At the end of this episode, we're going to talk more about this. Mike is also the author of nineteen books, including two international Amazon number-one bestsellers, The 100-Page Book and The Magic of Short Books. He's also the host of the Author Factor podcast, where he interviews business owners and authors, and shares his best tips, wisdom, and insights on how they write and leverage a nonfiction book in their businesses. Mike, I'm so excited to have you share with our guests.

I'm looking forward to this. Thank you very much.

You're welcome. My father wrote the book Life is Tremendous. He gave a speech called The Price of Leadership, probably one of the most listened to, recorded, and downloaded speeches. In it, he gets to the heart and the grit of leadership. He talks about the price of leadership and there are going to be four things that you as a leader are going to have to be paying to be a leader and not a leader in name only.

The first one he says is loneliness. We've all grown up here in that. It's lonely at the top and heavy is the head that wears the crown. Mike, can you talk to our audience about what loneliness has looked like in your journey as a leader or maybe a time you were in it? What recommendation or resources you would give to one of our listeners who perhaps is in that season right now?

First of all, it was your father's book that I have. It's a tremendous short book, Life is Tremendous. If you recall, I bought boxes of those books 10 or 15 years ago. I used them as business gifts when I first learned about it. You guys are also in Pennsylvania. That's where I'm located. I thought that was cool. Your father's book Life is Tremendous is a great example of a short helpful book.

Specifically to your question, honestly, I'm an introvert. Loneliness is not a big deal to me but I understand what it means in a bigger context. I thrive as an introvert, getting energy from being alone and being quiet and stuff like that versus being proud. In the context of what your dad was sharing and what you're talking about here, maybe isolation would be a better word that I would use these days. We know it's very easy as a business owner or as a corporate leader to be isolated and to shut yourself out of opportunities to brainstorm and network with other people, or hear other people's opinions, whether you think you have it all or you know it all or for whatever reason, location or whatever.

It's a dangerous trap. Being an introvert, I can find myself like, “I can do this alone. I can do it alone.” I can't believe I'm going to say this but now, when I need some feedback, I go to chatGPT and ask it a question like, “What do you think of this idea?” This is the question we asked one of my inner circle friends, but now with the technology, it is so simple to do that. It's something to be aware of when you're in that spot.

In a business context, it hasn't been a bigger deal. Personally, I've had instances in my life. The biggest challenge is like working through that and realizing it's hard. It's like having to go workout when you don't feel like working out. You have to force yourself to either reach out, open yourself up, or seek out someone that can help you, and be open to that. In the business context, one of the most powerful things we can talk about it more is having your inner circle, your own Mastermind group, someone you can text on the phone or pick up on the phone and say, “I need some help. I need some feedback. I am struggling with this,” whatever it might be. To me, that is key to that factor of loneliness.

Leadership: You have to force yourself to reach out, open yourself up, and seek out someone that can help you.

You said another word could be isolation. Loneliness is not always bad. There are times when we need to unchart or be in the quiet and stuff. I love that you brought that up. Each of these terms is amoral. It's neither good nor bad. There's a good loneliness and a bad loneliness. Isolation is always a bad loneliness because that's not how when are in the creative space and need help. We're meant to do a cord of three strands. It is not easily broken. I love that you share that. For all our introverts out there that are using chatGPT, that is so funny. I hadn't even thought about that.

It's a friend. It can be a real crutch or whatever. When you're brainstorming an idea or creative idea, I'm all about that. I was brainstorming a new idea and I needed some data and some feedback on some of the ideas. It's scarily amazing how good some of that stuff is.

Even Google, we’re researching that part. I want to pull all the data, but that's your best friend. There are a lot of scary science fiction movies out there like this where all of a sudden, I look at you and I'm like, “What would you do with Mike? Where did he go?” We’ll use the good side of technology and not the bad side of things. I love it. Thanks for unpacking that.

The next topic he talked about is weariness. It's a lot running a business, having a family, taking care of elderly parents, seeing loved one's crossover, and staying the visionary because you're running an entity. You have all those authors looking to you and saying, “How do I take this book to the next level?” How do you combat weariness?

We could spend an hour talking about that. If you're a person of faith, that is a foundation that you can always go back to and lean on that. I would also say all of us have an opportunity to up our personal health. Any of us do. I don't care if you're a world-class athlete or not. There are things we can do, and I've gotten very serious personally. I’m coming up on three years.

All of us have an opportunity to up our personal health.

In the last few years, coming up in November of 2020 when I went in for a physical. I got some not-horrible stuff but just some blood work that my doctor was like, “This is not looking good.” I finally start to get serious about it and research and understand what those numbers could mean, knowing that heart disease and stuff like that is in my family. Since November 2020, I've missed walking my daily multiple-mile walk by maybe 3 or 4 days, which I never thought I could do.

I had a friend of mine that used to walk every day. I was like, “How do you do that?” Now I'm in that mode but I've gotten serious. I always knew about it. We know we should be doing X, Y, and Z. We know we shouldn't be eating X, Y, and Z and eating A, B, and C. Again, it's the loneliness isolation factor. Sometimes you got to draw a line in the sand and say, “Enough is enough.” I hope that the path I'm on now as far as my health is staying healthy and focusing on that. I hope I can be consistent with that because that's a big challenge.

Weariness for me, if I'm physically feeling good. It doesn't mean you won't become weary. God has given us a lot of natural abilities like sleep. Food is medicine. I believe all this. I believe so much of that can have a huge impact on how you feel, specifically weariness. I'm not sure if that's what you're thinking.

The weariness of the soul, you hit on with loneliness. That's where your Mastermind group comes in and ministers to you, but we're still flesh and blood. We're mere mortals and we have the death clock. Sorry, I know it's motivational but the minute you're born, it's a point under one each of us to die. I love that you talk about it. You mentioned the word crutch. I heard this in a sermon while I always driving to work. They said, "People say, 'your faith is a crutch.'" He goes, "It's not a crutch. It's a hospital." I love that because that gives you.

The Bible is pretty clear about gluttony and overindulgence in certain things and health. We don't worship it but in the same token, we want to run the race strong. You can't do that if you're not physically strong. I reclaimed my health about five years ago. I saw Joyce Meyer in Hershey. I think she’s 80 now and she was pushing 75. She stood up on stage, and she had lost 20 pounds. She looked phenomenal. She's like, “I got a coach. If I'm going to finish the race strong, I got to take care of the shell.” I'm like, “There you have it.”

That's incredible but isn't it interesting? You said it. We know sugar is bad. We know you have to exercise and burn more than you take in like a bank account. You have to put in more than you take out. Otherwise, you're bankrupt. How did I gain weight? It's a scientific formula, but isn't it funny that it takes something where we finally then go, “Time to take action?”

Scarily enough, a majority of people, even when they get those wake-up calls, come on. We're not going to go down any rabbit holes here but there has been wake-up call after wake-up, whether it's in the world or personal. What I find amazing my dad is 81 and in good health. He lives in Florida and we talk several times a week. He was a college professor and a very contrarian type. Not a typical academic but regardless, we have these deep conversations about why humans are so good at not the things they ought to be doing and consciously doing that. It's a very interesting thought when you think about it.

I love that. That's cool. You said, contrarian. That's one of my favorite books. Steven Sample was the 10th president of USC. The Contrarian’s Guide to Leadership, I wonder if your dad read that. It's very much the same thing. We got free will and we're intrinsically self-oriented. The spirit is willing but the flesh is weak. When your body is craving or telling you these things, you've got to master that old flesh side that rears up.

The Contrarian's Guide to Leadership by Steven B. Sample

Speaking of which, we talk about abandonment. I'm in pet rescue and helping people over the fear of abandonment. Abandonment gets a bad name, abandoning pets and abandoning your marriage. My father talked about abandonment as more of a focus and a pruning, instead of what you like and want to think about or eat, you do what you ought and need to think about.

As you said, "I never thought I could walk." You do it one day at a time. With all the great ideas out there in publishing and I'm sure you get ten million people a year to call you and say, "What about this?" You're looking at stuff and going, "What about this?" How do you stay abandoned and focused on what you need so you can get the best value for your precious time and business?

I'm pretty good at that. I do believe I am very good at discerning where I should be spending my time and how I should be investing my time. You and I were talking before we hit record. As you get older, you get even more mature and wiser about these things. I have two daughters that are getting ready to graduate college. I try to teach them about trying to understand what's important and what's not.

At that age, young twenties, they're still not getting it as much as I wish they were. There's a focus on stuff that's probably distracting, to say the least. It comes down to what's important to you and what the big picture looks like. For our clients, I have a motto for a book publishing business. It's always about serving the reader. If I can help my clients serve the readers and I can help my clients by serving them, it sounds cliché but that mindset of service and putting that first, before the almighty dollar and before how we're going to make money and all this other stuff, which is important. I'm not denying that. When you have certain mindsets, principles, beliefs, and non-negotiables, it makes that idea of abandonment and what's important and what's not much easier.

For a book publishing business, it's always about serving the reader.

It's such an important topic. You said it's so good discerning where you should be spending your time and money. That's the one thing then people go, "That's not happening." I'm like, "Where are you spending your time? Who are you having conversations with? What are you reading?" “Nothing.” I go, "That spells nothing." Charles would say that. He's like, "Nothing works unless you work it." You got to get really clear on what that is. I remember when I was twenty as a young woman, they'll get there.

They're on the path. It's just like your father and mother.

Thank God I had the military. I tell people, “If I didn't have the military when I was young. I'd be living in a van down by the river. I'm not kidding.” There's always a military. It works for a lot of us. Thank you for sharing that on discernment and I love that. It gets down to two words. What's important?

People will say, “This is important to me.” I'm like, “Where are you spending your time?” “On something else.” I'm like, “You’re telling yourself a lie. That is not important to you.” The proof is in the pudding. The last one is vision. Vision is a beautiful thing. It's got this future aspect. It's highly integrated with leadership. It's the why?

My father was a contrarian. He was very pragmatic. He would always say, “Vision is you don't have to go up to the mountain or be like Nostradamus. Vision is seeing what needs to be done, so this sight, and then doing it. There's what you want to attract yourself but also this beautiful action, strategy, and tactics. How do you vision cast? How do you set the stage for what's nice next for your business? You've been here since 1998, which is phenomenal. How do you forecast what's coming up next for Mike Capuzzi in Bite-Sized Books?

The first thing is probably being healthy. Therefore, the brain is hopefully being optimized. Your health is there, and I was always healthy. I've gotten better at it. I've been blessed in that respect. Thank God, no major issues. It's like a car. If you put crappy gas in the car, it’s going to run crappy. If you put good fuel, it runs better. That's foundational.

You and I talked about this on my podcast. I'm a voracious reader at 5 years old and at 50-something, I'm still a voracious reader. I like to think that input from a lot of different people is very helpful to not only learning new things but being reminded, encouraged, and motivated. I'm also a big fan of quiet time and creative thinking time. It’s like you're saying, “I don't go off.” I'd like to eventually go off into the wilderness.

Leadership: Input from a lot of different people is very helpful to not only learning new things but just being reminded, encouraged, and motivated.

I'm very good about being very proactive about being quiet, typically outside, oftentimes, with my dog next to me and letting it happen. Letting the brain flow. By the way, I moved it because I was cleaning up my desk. I am old school, pen and paper. I've got a clipboard I use. I take outside with me this newest idea that I've been thinking about, the one I was saying about with chatGPT.

My wife and daughters were moving back up. My daughters are at Penn State, so they're getting ready to move into a new apartment. I had 24 hours by myself and my notes are right over here because it's important, at least for me, to have that quiet time where I can think and visualize like, “What does this look like?” Typically, it doesn't all come at that moment. Can I share a real quick story?

Please.

I sent you a box of our books. This is a very cool story just to exemplify this. This is no lie. I forget the exact date June 30th or July 1st of 2022. A good friend of mine and I had this conversation. He is pretty proactive about trying to make the country back on a good path. I'll leave it at that and he's doing a lot, and I'm very motivated by what he does.

I got on a phone call with him to say, “This is awesome what you're doing. What can I do?” I'm not an outspoken person. I'm not going to be out there banging. I'm not that. He said, “You have a platform. You help others and bring people books.” This was right before July 4th, 2022. I had this thing in my feeling. I remember sitting outside that day with my dog. This idea came to me for a new book and more of a compilation book, where I'm bringing on what turned out to be thirteen military veterans. I mentioned this to you.

This idea came to me on July 4th, just a quiet and peaceful time outside. Here's the chill part and you probably know this, where you live in Pennsylvania. I'm sitting here thinking, "Is this a good idea?" My wife was even outside with me. I'm like, "This idea of a book called I Love America. I'm thinking I'm going to feature people who have this love for America and want it to be a better place and all that.” A Bald Eagle flew over my house. I swear. I'm in Southeastern Pennsylvania. Bald eagles are not common but they're there. I'm trying to get my phone. You talk about a sign from God or above. As soon as I saw that and had I not been out there in this mode. On Veterans Day, which was November, and a couple of months later, I Love America, the first book came out.

I love that confirmation but you got to be quiet and watching. Sometimes we're so noisy with their self-thought about, “I got to figure it out.” Let it come to you, the creativity and the confirmation, and stop blocking your creativity and blessing pipeline. That is awesome.

It doesn’t always happen that way. I wrote about it in the book. It's in the book. I'm like, “This is for me.”

It doesn't always happen that way because we're not meant to be doing everything. The little bits that you get told to do, then you go and do that. Who knows? We may not write as much as John Maxwell or C.S. Lewis but that's okay. Every now and then, if we put something out there for people to digest, we’re doing our part to add to the collective body of wisdom. I love that. We talked about loneliness, weariness, abandonment, and vision. Bonus points for vision casting with your dog. For our audience, I think you know how I feel about this. When you put God, nature, and dogs together, get ready. It's like the trifecta.

How cool is that?

I don't want to get cat hate.

Maybe.

I have three cats too. Don't send me any nasty emails. I love my cats. I have one right here now. They just listen. They're just looking at me. Loneliness, weariness, abandonment, and vision. Mike, what else? is there anything else? We talked a lot about leadership, things you've gone through, things you've changed, and the impetus for change. Is there anything else that we have not touched on?

Here's what I came up with. It’s very applicable. It's pretty mature to share where I'm going with this. I wrote down two words relative to something new I want to work on. It's very applicable to this conversation and a word of encouragement for the audience. The two words were influence and impact. I've focused in the last five years primarily almost 100% of my time on using books. That type of media is a way to allow business owners, entrepreneurs, and corporate leaders to share their influence and impact it.

It goes even beyond that. I would say for a lot of people tuning in, especially if you are at a season in your life where maybe most of it is in the rearview mirror. You haven't necessarily shared what you've done and what you can do. There are people out there that would love to hear and read, whatever it might be.

I would have encouraged people to think about that. It's not necessarily about making money or business. There's so much wisdom and things that all of us have done that maybe it's technical. I help people write books. That's a technical thing. Maybe it's about beating cancer or whatever. I worked with a doctor who helps people with osteoporosis. Whatever it might be. I would encourage you, if you feel like it's there and you haven't ever done a book, to talk to Tracey or me. Share that. Share it. It's cool.

It is. Charles would say that. We talked about that in the show, “You're the only one that's been through this. You are a genius in something in your life because only you went through it.” To not share that is selfish. You were put to go through it, not to break you down and strengthen you, but so you can be an encouragement to other people.

All those books people are writing these books. There's a reason people write books and a reason people love digesting books. You grew up loving books. I grew up reading to earn money and on a need to know but you can cultivate a love of reading later in life, just like picking up golf or going to skydive. I published a gentleman's book that was 92. It's never too late to hone this skill and your appetite.

If people don't love reading, it's because they haven't been open to it. It's like when people scoff at the Bible, I'm like, “Have you ever read it or looked at it?” “No, but I've heard.” You can judge anything you want but if you say that to me, what does that even matter to you? There are so many books out there. The Wisdom of the Ages is out there. As you said, I would encourage it.

Everything is out there. Everything has been written. There's new technology or something that has, but as far as the fundamental stuff, it's there. That's why your dad's book was such a great resource for me years ago because I love to read. There are times when a short book makes so much sense and there's a lot of very powerful short books.

I 100% agree with you. The other thing I would share and you know this as well as I do. When you put a book out there, for example, 99 out of 100 times, you will never know how it impacts someone. You don't know that. One percent of the people will leave a review on Amazon or write you an email or something but I can guarantee the numbers are much bigger.

When you put a book out there, 99 out of 100 times, you will never know how it impacts someone.

I'm always blown away on my podcast when I'm interviewing people and I don't know somebody. They get on and say, “Mike, your book inspires me to do something like this.” That's happened so many times. I didn't know that. I would say think about that because it's not about the reviews, although they’re nice. You're helping people and you don't even realize you're helping people.

The seminal people took 50 years plus. When you pull up Aristotle or Aesop's Fables or the greats from so many years ago, you're like, "Look at this. It's like I know them." If they hadn't taken the time to write it down, the Bible is the number one bestseller of all time. If his apostles and disciples, if Matthew, Mark, Luke, and all the prophets in the Old Testament had not taken the time to write it down, what would we have?

The storytelling is beautiful but why not do both? Take your stories and write them down because you may not be around to tell that story or you may get canceled and you don't get to tell yours and anything. A book can be given out there. You talk about handing books out to business people and entrepreneurs. Charles would say, "Don't get people your business card because they'll throw it away. Give them a little book because they're not going to forget that." There you are with the little book. Mike, how do people get a hold of you? I hope we've inspired some of our business leaders. You've done so much. Time to get your little book out.

Thank you. Our publishing business is Bite-SizedBooks.com but with you're blessing, I'm going to offer your audience a gift to read three of my short books, The Magic of Short Books, which has been an Amazon number one bestseller off and on for the last three years, The Magic of Working Together and The Magic of Gratitude. These are three little short books that your audience can grab digitally so they're up online hidden if they go to my primary site which is MikeCapuzzi.com/magic. I call it my Magic Kit. They can grab those three books.

The Magic of Short Books: Discover a Unique & Different Kind of Book to Attract Your Ideal Customer by Mike Capuzzi

I love this because sometimes people go, “A short book, that makes me look less than.” I'm like, “No.” You can write 500 other books but get this first. It's like getting in your PhD. Write something and get it done, then you can get twenty more and write 700-page dissertations. Just get it done. What is the stats? I told you this in the show, 72% of the people don't make it past page 50. Bite-Sized Books is the answer.

I believe so. This doctor who's an osteoporosis surgeon got his short book done. He's like, “My colleagues are telling me I need to write the big book.” I said, “Rather than write this big book that no one is going to read, write 4 or 5 shorter books.” As soon as I said that, he was like, “That's the way to do it.”

For our audience out there, when people say, “No, write this,” look at them and say, “How many books have you published?” I'm like, “I'm just going to go with the people that have published and listen to them.” As you said, they're quick, easy, and affordable to print. They're very affordable. It's no different than putting in your little marketing piece, but it's a meaty marketing piece that can change somebody's life. It’s a big deal.

Mike, I can't thank you enough for being here and sharing with us. I love what you're doing. I love that you're close. I look forward to many more. I love the influence and impact sessions with you. I want to thank you for sharing what you did in leadership. It greatly helped me and inspired me. I know you did to our audience too.

Thank you very much. You were a great guest, so I'm glad. Hopefully, it was able to meet halfway there.

You're welcome. To our tremendous tribe out there, thank you so much for being part of everything that we're doing. We couldn't do it without you. If you like this episode, please be sure and hit the like and subscribe button. We'd be honored if you would leave us a review. Also, make sure you connect with Mike Capuzzi. The purpose of this is not just to tune in but also to connect and have valuable resources.

Never forget, as my father said, “You'll be the same person five years from now that you are today except for two things, the people you meet and the books you read.” You just met the tremendous Mike and he gave us some tremendous book. You can go to his site and download three of them, so you'll be triple tremendous. Everybody, thanks so much again. Keep on paying the price of leadership. We're right there with you.

Important Links

• Mike Capuzzi

• Bite-Sized Books

• The 100-Page Book

• The Magic of Short Books

• Author Factor

• Life is Tremendous

• The Contrarian's Guide to Leadership

• I Love America

• Wisdom of the Ages

• Aesop's Fables

• MikeCapuzzi.com/magic

About Mike Capuzzi

Mike Capuzzi is an author, nonfiction book coach and short book publisher for business owners, entrepreneurs and CEOs looking to leverage the power of being a short, helpful book author.

Since 1998, Mike has helped thousands of business owners market their business smarter. Bite Sized Books is his book publishing company, founded on his proven formula for creating short, helpful books (shooks™) for business owners, entrepreneurs and corporate leaders. Shooks are the ideal type of book to publish because they are easy and fast to create, can be read in about an hour and offer helpful ways for readers to connect with the author.

Mike is the author of 19 books, including two international Amazon # 1 Best Sellers, The 100-Page Book and The Magic of Short Books. He is also the host of The Author Factor Podcast where he interviews business owner authors and shares their best tips, wisdom and insights on how they write and leverage a nonfiction book in their businesses.

Episode 169 - John Feloni - Leaders On Leadership

True leadership lies not in the title, but in embracing the burdens of loneliness, weariness, and abandonment while forging a visionary path. In this episode, John Feloni, bestselling author of The Fall of the House of Hutton, The Covenant Secret, and The Tollbooth, explores the four pillars that can make or break leaders: loneliness, weariness, abandonment, and vision. John also unveils the dangers of hubris and misguided leadership, drawing from historical examples like the infamous fall of the House of Hutton. He also lets us enter the world of "The Toll Booth," his latest business parable that promises to captivate your mind and soul. Tune in now as we unravel the secrets to becoming exemplary leaders!

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Watch the episode here

Listen to the podcast HERE

John Feloni - Leaders On Leadership

Welcome to another show where we pull back the curtain on leadership and talk to leaders of all ages and stages about what it takes to pay the price of leadership. In this episode, I am so excited to introduce you to my new guest, John Feloni. John, welcome.

Thank you for having me.

Let me tell you a little bit about John. John is the bestselling author of several books, The Fall of the House of Hutton, The Covenant Secret, and The Tollbooth. John addresses the hubris of misguided leadership and explores inspired leadership and the seeking and developing of individual and organizational purpose, whether on Wall Street or a college campus. John uses his lifelong entrepreneurial spirit to act resourcefully and effectively and build extraordinary teams.

He considers himself blessed with a spectacular team as the Founder and CEO of Stock Squirrel, where he intends on executing a vision that will make a dent in the universe and expand this social consciousness of society. John, that is a beautiful vision, which we're going to talk about. Thank you again for being here.

Thank you for having me.

A lot of the audience is like, "Tracy, how do you know all these cool, tremendous people?" I always like to give a shout-out to who made the introduction, and that was Tony Makowski. Those of you who have published with me, Tony and I have been co-publishing for many years. Tony has published some of John's books and connected me with him. Thank you, Tony, for this tremendous introduction. Without further ado, John, we're going to get right into the topic of leadership.

My father gave a speech many years ago. It was probably one of the top speeches he gave called The Price of Leadership. In it, he talks about the four things that you as a leader are going to have to be paying to be truly doing leadership and not just a leader in name only. The first of those is loneliness. We've heard the term, "Lonely is the head that wears the crown. It's lonely at the top." Can you talk to us about a time in your career or life when you experienced the loneliness of leadership and maybe some words of wisdom in case one of our audience is going through it to help them get to the other side of it?

I'll give you an example. I was at EF Hutton and I was Chairman of Boone Pickens United Shareholders Association. EF Hutton was being taken over. It was a bad deal for shareholders and I brought a class action lawsuit to block the merger. I sued the company, which led to the bestselling book, The Fall of the House of Hutton. What was interesting is everyone agreed with me on the wrong that the hubris agreed on and everything that management and the board of directors were doing. I decided to take action on that. Everybody is all for you on all that, but when push comes to shove, you're standing out there alone.

That is a leader. What you learn from that is you're asked the question, "Would you do that again?" There are all kinds of obstacles and attacks on being a leader of something because you're out front alone. If you're truthful and you are passionate about the action you took, the answer is yes. I always answer as well I say, "I would be a little bit more elegant." It's because you do learn as you go that there are always ways to be more elegant in your leadership, and that comes with experience.

You learn as you go that there are always ways to be more elegant in your leadership, and that comes with experience.

You brought something up there. If you are on the front line in being courageous, there are a lot of people who like to stand behind you, but typically, there's that tip of the spear. As a leader, you have to prepare for it. I also love that you reflect and look at a way that you could get better. I'm sure that was a scary time. I did crisis leadership in my PhD and I studied a failed merger. It was wild in the heat of the moment. I love that you reflected and said you could be a little bit more elegant. There are times when, "Are we creating our loneliness?" We know there are going to be times of loneliness, but are there ways that I could have done it in a way that narrowed the gap a little bit?

That's beautiful. Thank you, John. Loneliness. The next is weariness. My father would always joke and say it's a joke but not joking, "Tracy, it's going to be tiring as a leader because there's going to be some people that do way more than what you ask of them, and then there's going to be a lot that doesn't." You're constantly having to pick up loads, shift, and balance different things. How do you combat weariness? Our team is only as strong as we are.

It always has to do with the team and with people. There are a few things. First of all, as a leader, I come up with a vision, which we'll talk about. A vision is a destination that I see clearly. My job is to get a bus and point the bus in the direction of the vision. My true job is to get all the right people and sit them in the right seats on the bus. That's going to change. You're going to have to adjust. There's nothing more difficult than letting people go. That's always hard. One of the things that addresses weariness and loneliness is to be a servant leader, where you lead from the bottom up rather than from the top down.

I'll give examples of that. When I was a broker at EF Hutton and in management, I hired more million-dollar producers than anyone. When I was given, they would let me go around the region talking to other managers and how you did that. My answer was very simple, not profound at all. I would take one of my brokers to breakfast or lunch. Every morning or every afternoon, I'd take a broker. I'd ask them what they were working on, and then I'd ask them what their goals were, and what they needed to accomplish their goals. I then went back to the office and got them what they needed.

Profoundly simple, but what typical management is, they would say, "You'll get this and this when you do this and this," whereas my approach was, "I'll give you this to get you there." You're not always going to be right. You got to trust people like adults and that's always difficult because the rules of organizations are always based upon the lowest common denominator of human behavior rather than the best. The weariness comes from fighting all of those external things, but it's your people and the vision that do away with the loneliness and the weariness.

You have to trust people like adults.

You said that rules are always based on the lowest common denominator. That's profound. We had Ken Blanchard on a leadership call teaching a course. He said the same thing. A lot of prevailing wisdom is you grade people, "You're a C or a D." He's like, "No. Everybody gets an A." There's a book where the guy wrote it and Ken was talking about it. Assume everybody has a great pearl in them, and you need to coach them up to an A. I love that you sit there.

You said it. This is making the assumption that they are self-directed, they understand their values, and they can articulate to you what their goals are. I love the one quoted. It's like, "You always want to delegate to the lieutenants providing you have good lieutenants." That is the assumption, especially in the financial services sector because you die out pretty quickly if you don't know or have a hunger for it. I love that you said that because that's what gets burdensome as a leader. That's what makes us weary. We're focusing our efforts on the wrong thing.

I trust my people. Even take as many sick days as you want and as many vacations. When you trust people and treat them like adults, they tend to behave that way as opposed to giving all of these rules and structures. Have faith in that human being and back them. You're going to be disappointed at times, no doubt, but less so than you think.

You also said the goals. Everybody thinks, "Servant leadership isn't letting everybody come up every day and decide what they want to do." You still have those goals out there. We are still part of a collective, so we're going to be on this sheet of music together, but let me know how you see the goals and the resources to get there. That's a beautiful definition of leadership, John. Thank you.

The next thing he talked about was abandonment. Typically, abandonment is a jagged word like fear of abandonment or abandoning pets. It has a negative connotation. In my father's case, he referred to it as a focusing effect. I can remember him saying to me, "Tracy, on any given day, I spend more time on becoming a failure than I do on a success." What he meant was that we need to stop spending time on what we like and want to do in favor of what we ought and need to do. His sense of abandonment was getting rid of the non-value-added things, thoughts, meetings, and whatever, so we could become very singularly focused. With you, how do you maintain that singularity?

It always has to do with people. You get visions, you have plans and strategies, and so forth, but it's always carried out through people. One of the ways that I'll deal with this, whether it's the loneliness, weariness, abandonment, or even the vision, is I learned something as a manager in a brokerage firm years ago. I was an assistant manager at EF Hutton. I was probably 26 years old. I was walking by this broker's office. He was a big broker and he called me in. It was a big office, 300 to 400 people. I always knew the politics of everything.

The guy, Chuck, he's a friend, calls me in and he starts giving me hell about this decision that was made by management, which he knew wasn't my decision, but he's given me hell about it. I learned something at 26, which was powerful. He was Italian, and I'm Italian. He's accusing me of all this management stuff that I had nothing to do with. He's attacking, which was out of character. I decided to ask a salesmanship 101 question, which is so simply absurd, but I decided to ask it because it was a weird situation.

Before I was going to engage him with my temper because he was running off, I said, "Chuck, is there anything else besides that that's bothering you?" He sunk back in his chair inside and he said, "My grandfather died last night," I yelled at him. I said, "You're going to give all the hell on and all this stuff." Here's what I learned, which adds to loneliness, weariness, and abandonment, that 90% of the time as managers and leaders, we're spending time and effort on issues that aren't even the issue. It behooves us to deal with that weariness, abandonment, and loneliness in the leadership function to make sure that we are dealing with the issue and to ask the questions and reveal the truth before you spend any time and effort yourself or the organization on solving a problem that is not the problem.

Tollbooth: 90% of the time, managers and leaders are spending time and effort on issues that aren't even the issue.

It's the old research thing. Correlation is not causation. That was correlated, but that wasn't the root cause analysis of what was going on. I love that simply absurd questions reveal the truth.

It was Drucker who said the difference between efficiency and effectiveness is that when you are efficiently putting a ladder up against the wall, it's solid, it's stayed, you're ready to paint, and you go up there, but it's the wrong wall. Putting it against the right wall is effective. We could be efficient at doing the wrong things too. We got to make sure that we're effective as well as efficient and we're dealing with the problems. These are all things that leaders learn over the years by experience. Hopefully, they learn them.

It's a skillset. I hope our audience is out there. That's a great question to ask somebody. I love that you said it was out of character for him. Rather than fight or flight, you're like, "Emotional regulation. I'm bringing this energy in and I'm going to calm it, diffuse it, and say what's going on." I love that. Thank you, John. Those are loneliness, weariness, and abandonment. Last is vision. Sometimes we think, "I'm not Nostradamus, Elon Musk, Oprah, or some of these big visionaries." I love what you said that vision is a destination. It's where you want to go. My dad would say it's seeing something and then devising a plan to get there. There was this attraction, but then this action aspect. What is vision to you and how do you keep honing it?

What's interesting is when you do follow a vision, especially in this world where you get feedback immediately on so many different levels, you have to adjust and pivot. You look at vision as a thermostat. You're going to get feedback continuously in adjusting, and you may have to change. What's interesting and a lot of entrepreneurs, especially in the technology space, will tell you that the vision of the company that they initially pointed to is nothing like the way it was ultimately executed.

As a matter of fact, there's a reason why in Silicon Valley, the venture capital firms back the jockeys more than the horses. They look for a management team and will back a management team more so than the idea of the company. It's because they know that that initial idea may not be even close to what the final product is once you touch the marketplace and once you touch customers. They know that good management teams know how to pivot when they're faced with the information of the marketplace and are able to adjust and bring the vision home, which may be entirely different than it initially was.

That is brilliant. I've been around a long time. I always tell people, "Even Jesus, the Holy Spirit came down on him and told him, 'This is my beloved son. He's the one.'" It is until you have the team.

Think about this. In his team of 12, 20% were no good. You had a doubter and a deceiver. Even Jesus had a management issue.

Yes, he did. That's fascinating. I love that you talked about vision. You adjust it and fine-tune it. Even me. I'm about to celebrate many years of being back and I'm looking at it. I'm where it was. Dad always says, "You'll be the same person five years from now, except for two things, the people you meet and the books you read." Every five years, I'm like, "Where are we now?" You morph into something different. You keep the DNA, but you're growing into something different. I love that you talked about that because we need to adjust our vision and say, "These aspects of it, we may have outgrown. Now, we're looking at this. I got the calling that this is done and I'm going on to the next one."

Who said it best was Napoleon. He was truly the greatest general. He won more battles than the next three combined numbers of battles. He was the greatest military strategist ever. He would plan and plan. As he said, he goes, "Every battle plan isn't worth a tinker's dam once you face the enemy." It prepares you for how to respond, but it changes its dynamic quickly. It's the same for a vision for a company, etc. Once you face the enemy or the marketplace, you got to continuously adjust. If you've done your homework, you know what your arsenal is in the adjustment. If you have the right team, you have the skillset in order to adjust as well.

Every battle plan isn't worth the tinker’s dam once you face the enemy.

They now talk about it. Remember, it was all IQ in the old school, and then it was the EQ. The last twenty years have been about the softest or the hardest leadership. Now, they're talking about AQ, your Adaptive Capacity. It doesn't matter how emotive people-oriented or smart you are, you got to be quick in the lightning seat. You have to be adaptive and regenerative because, on any given day, the best-laid plans are gone.

I'm just thinking of a marketing plan. It used to be years ago when I was young. It would take six months or a year before you knew what you were doing was effective or not. Now, you've got immediate feedback. You've got to have plans, you got to be ready, you got to adjust, and you got to pivot.

I love that because people out there are like, "I know, but I thought I was going to do this." I'm like, "That's okay. You still keep that overarching theme, but your flight plan can vary at any given thing." That's great for the audience to know. Hold on loosely. Don't let go.

It is the beauty of growing up too. Think about it. When I was young, I had fewer choices because the world was different. Now, youth have so many choices. I'm always, even with my children, trying everything. Learning is not just following your passion, but it's also learning the stuff you don't like. It's a process of elimination as well. That will hone you on your path as well. Not just succeeding, but the failures and learning that you are not good at something or dislike it will help direct you as well.

That's so important because most people are not sure exactly what they want. We talk about vision, and I would say 1 out of 20 people know at a young age, "This is what I'm going to do." The rest of us ebb and flow through life, but I love that. I'm not sure what I am put on earth to do, but I'm still going to try things, and then I'm going to see.

I would consult with certain people. You'd have a 40-year-old lawyer sitting across from me, and he's coming and sitting across from me looking for guidance and counseling. He doesn't want to be a lawyer anymore, but he doesn't want to make the change because of all of these reasons, societal, family, etc. I asked him a very simple question. I said, "Rather than sitting across from me who is older than you and more experienced, if you were sitting across from an eighteen-year-old, would you take their advice on which direction you should go professionally?" He says, "No, that's stupid." I said, "That's the age that you decided to be a lawyer, so it's okay to change your mind."

It is okay to change your mind, but you're right. Letting go of the comforts is tough. That's the entrepreneur's journey. I always worked for big bureaucracies and Fortune 100 companies. Making that transition is a shift, and it's a whole different kind of problem. I prefer entrepreneurial problems way better than bureaucratic problems. That's not everybody, but that's how I am.

Me too.

Most of our audience is, too, that's why they're reading or someday will be. We talked about loneliness, weariness, abandonment, and vision. I want to talk more about leadership. Can we talk about The Fall of the House of Hutton? You talked about the dangers of hubris and misguided leadership. Can you unpack for us, what you found?

I'll do another book down the road and I call it The Custer Principle, George Armstrong Custer. Here's what happens. When we have results of something, people try to discipline themselves to make different actions and then decisions. Go back to beliefs because beliefs produce thoughts and thoughts produce decisions and certain actions and results. Most people, if they don't get the result they want, they go back to disciplining themselves on actions and so forth. You got to go back to beliefs.

Tollbooth: Most people, if they don't get the result they want, go back to disciplining themselves on actions and so forth. You have to go back to your beliefs.

Here is what the Custer principle is. I experienced this at EF Hutton, and then you experience it with a lot of hubris of powerful people. At the time, Georgia Armstrong Custer, who graduated last in his class at West Point was in the newspaper all the time. He was a great general, and he needed a huge victory because he wanted to run for president. Even though he had some personal flaws, he had the press and everything. He only had 140 men. He was faced with the largest congregation of Indians in the history of the country, 10,000 Indians. He had a colonel who was coming with a lot of troops, but they wouldn't be there for a couple of days. George Armstrong Custer decided, "I better attack these 10,000 before they find a way to escape." He attacked them with 140 men.

What I call the Custer Principle is that if you have a fixed viewpoint of something or a certain belief, you will create all kinds of nonsense in order to support that belief. From this book, I created what I call a SAT scan. Know how a CAT scan is Computer Aided Tomography, where you see 360 degrees of something. With us, our decision-making is going to be limited by the things that we believe and our viewpoints. With the SAT scan, I call it a Spiritually Aided Tomography, where you take the viewpoints and the opinions of someone anywhere from Jesus Christ to Hitler.

If you look and explore all of those personalities, then you look at the circumstance in front of you, now your opportunities and choices expand dramatically instead of limiting yourself. When you look at The Fall of the House of Hutton or whoever it may be when you see such massive falls, it's typically because that hubris was created by having limited viewpoints, limited beliefs, and the actions followed from those beliefs and viewpoints.

How do we as leaders avoid that?

We talk about diversity. The most important thing about diversity is having diversity of thought and viewpoints. When you're sitting across from someone and you're addressing a circumstance, to truly explore a diverse group of people who have a different experience, different life, and different education, all of a sudden, you're getting more information and you're expanding your choices. Ayn Rand said that there are only two reasons why we do something stupid. 1) Either we don't have enough information. 2) The information that we have is wrong, and we're making some decisions on that.

Probably the most important thing about diversity is having diversity of thought.

By having a good group of people around you, a diverse viewpoint, diverse backgrounds, and diverse education, you get to see and explore more things that are truthful. You get people to say, "You are holding that premise, and it's not true." All this stuff is important. That's the best thing a leader could do in order to make good decisions.

They always say if everybody's thinking alike, somebody's not thinking, yet I tell people, "You can look radically different, but if you're all in the echo chamber, you're not diverse." Like you said, it's your thought process. Yes, you want to look for the other, but it has to emanate. You set up here, like you said, beliefs and values, thoughts, emotions, and behaviors. That's where you got to get back to. I love that.

Thoughts, emotions, decisions, and behavior because these decisions are key.

Talk to us about your latest book that just came out, The Tollbooth.

The Tollbooth is interesting. It's a business parable where this younger guy is at a crossroads in his life. He can expand his company. He sees in the company newsletter with the chairman, who is a great founder of this great multinational conglomerate saying, "We should follow our heart, follow our passion," and so forth. He decides to see if he can get an audience with the CEO and the founder of this company because he wants to ask him a question. The question that he raises is a good one. He says, "You said in your newsletter that we should follow our heart. I feel that if I follow my heart, I will be leaving this company."

That's a profound statement to go to the CEO of a company. The CEO who was a very wise man takes him on a journey of exploring all that. He gives them a notebook where this person is going through his exploration in a tollbooth at night. A tollbooth is a metaphor for us going inside and for us being alone and not looking to the external world for answers, not looking for gurus, not looking for religion or wisdom, but to go inside where all the answers are. It's this journey that this young man goes through and comes to a conclusion at the end.

The Tollbooth: An Inspirational Story about One Man’s 40-Day Spiritual Journey

I love it. Tony sent me copies. I can't wait to read it. I love business parables too. John, what's the best way for people to reach out to you or get your books?

The books are on Amazon, or you can go right to the publisher. I have a website that I'll be building out more, JohnFeloni.com. You can reach me on LinkedIn. I love hearing about people. You can put a comment on Amazon a review of the book or what have you, and I'll respond.

John, thank you. Each of those four topics and then even after, you said something that gave me another little paradigm shift. You are everything and more than what Tony told you. I know our audience has enjoyed your thoughts and your wisdom and will connect with you. Thank you so much for being my guest.

Thank you for having me. I enjoyed it.

You're welcome. To our audience out there, we couldn't do it without you. Thank you for being a part of our tremendous tribe. If you like what you read, please do us the honor of hitting the subscribe button and sharing it with another leader looking to develop their leadership skills. If you'd give us the honor of a five-star review, we would be tremendously grateful. Be sure you connect with John and get his book. Remember, life is all about the people you meet and the books you read. Have a tremendous rest of your day.

Important Links

• The Fall of the House of Hutton

• The Covenant Secret

• The Tollbooth

• Stock Squirrel

• JohnFeloni.com

• LinkedIn – John Feloni

• Amazon – John Feloni

About John Feloni

As a bestselling author, of The Fall of the House of Hutton, The Covenant Secret, and The Tollbooth, John addresses the hubris of misguided leadership and explores inspired leadership, as well as individual motivation, personal inspiration, and the seeking and developing of individual and organization purpose. Whether on Wall Street or a college campus, John uses his lifelong entrepreneurial spirit to act resourcefully and effectively and build extraordinary teams. He considers himself blessed with a spectacular team as the Founder and CEO of StockSquirrel, where he intends on executing a vision that will make a dent in the Universe and expand the social consciousness of society.

Episode 158 - Bonita Hightower - Leaders On Leadership

If you're looking to take your leadership skills to the next level, you're in the right place. In this episode, Bonita Hightower will share with us what the best leaders do differently and how they can help you become more successful. Other than being a successful businesswoman that opened Bonita’s restaurant, Bonita Hightower is a wife, mother, grandmother, an army veteran, and leader in so many ways. Tune in as we have a fruitful discussion on all things leadership!

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Watch the episode here

Listen to the podcast here

Bonita Hightower - Leaders On Leadership

I am so excited because I have one of our very own Tremendous Leadership fans, the one and only Bonita Hightower. Bonita, thank you for being here.

You're welcome.

We have a couple of other guests on here. I will let Bonita introduce them, but I want to tell you a little bit about this powerhouse of a woman here. Bonita is a mover and a shaker. She's a businesswoman, wife, mother, grandmother, and a respected Army Veteran. I love that. She's a speaker and an encourager. Bonita and her husband, Willie, opened Bonita's Restaurant in Plains, Georgia in 2015. Bonita enjoys preparing down home Southern cooking made from scratch. She has many loyal customers, but famous people have enjoyed her food as well.

President Jimmy Carter and his wife, Rosalynn, love the convenience of Bonita's delicious carryout orders. Adding value to other people's lives is the hallmark of Bonita's life. Serving others in her business and serving others through various ministry endeavors, motivates her thoughts and actions each and every day. Bonita, I'm so excited to talk all things leadership with you.

Thank you, Tracey. You too.

We've emailed, and she has been a loyal customer of ours. When we finally connected, it was like, "Where have you been all my life?" There were many beautiful values things from the military to motivating others to being a new author to being a sister in Christ. I'm excited to unpack the price of leadership. Without further ado, you want to hear from Bonita and her guests. We're going to go ahead and get started. Bonita, could you quickly introduce the two other guests you have?

I'm more than happy to. I have Gwendolyn Rhenwrick who is a divine connection. I met her several years ago. She was the guest of a Georgia Legislator who I was honored in Preston for years of being in service at the capital. She was his honored guest. Everybody was wondering who was John White going to bring to this celebration party, and it was Gwen. We connected right off the bat because of what her call is.

We grew together to understand that swimming is very important. Many people lose their lives because they don't know how to swim and they love the water. That was my call when I heard that the children are drowning because they do not know how to swim. That's another segment of my life, but that's how I met Gwendolyn Rhenwrick.

Leadership: Many people lose their lives because they don't know how to swim and they love the water.

Next is my oldest daughter, Helena Nicole Taylor, a Retired 1st Sergeant, who served 22 years in our United States Army Services. She has gone places that I've never gone to and don't intend to go to. She served in hostile areas. She has lost troops. Her suggestions were not honored by the higher-ups, but in the final analysis, they should have listened. Her 22 years were not easy. As a matter of fact, when she retired, I thought I retired because I was right there every step of the way with her.

Those are the two awesome women in my life. They're very strong and they know what they’ve got to do. My daughter is the MC for my first book signing. She told me what to do, "You need to do this." I said, "Do it. I'll follow. Tell me what to do." I don't have any problems with that, but that's who is on my left and right. That's who is with me.

The Price of Leadership: The Price You Must Pay to Be a Great Leader

Thank you, Bonita, for bringing Helen and Gwendolyn. Ladies, we look forward to unpacking some tidbits here and knowing more about you on the show as well. Let's go ahead and unpack this leadership. My father wrote a speech many years ago called The Price of Leadership. In it, he outlined the four things that you are going to have to be paying as a leader if you are going to be a true leader and not a leader in name only.

Ladies, we have a lot of people that say they're leaders, but they are not paying the price. The first thing he talked about was loneliness. You will experience loneliness as a leader. We've all heard that it's lonely at the top. We know Jesus had to go off into the desert for days on his own if you watched The Chosen. There are times you have to be alone, but could you unpack for us ladies what loneliness looked like for you and your leadership journey and how you dealt with it, and any wisdom or insights that you would give to our audience that may be in a season of loneliness right now?

Do you want me to start?

I'd love to Bonita if you'd start.

Leadership is something that you know you have been called to do. It's not something that you look over and you see somebody else that you might think is leading and you want to be like that. It's not that at all. Bottom line, you have to know that you have been called into that leadership role and then you have to accept that. I can say this freely on this show because Tracey is a Christian base. That knowing comes from deep within.

Leadership: Leadership is something that you have been called to do. It's not something that you look over and you see somebody else that you might think is leading and you want to be like that.

If you don't have it from there, then you're fooling yourself. You're shooting yourself in the foot because to be called to leadership is what it is, loneliness. No doubt about it. Don't kid ourselves. This is part of the package. I've been called to leadership. "I don't know exactly what all I got to do, but I'm going to embrace this that I feel deep within me."

It's part of the package. I was in the military too. Our readers know that. We have all been there. As a leader when you see what needs to be done and you say things, that is a terrible, lonely thing where people are like, "No, we're doing something else." Can you unpack that a little bit for us, Helena? We've all been there.

When I was being in these positions, I had to understand what my role was, and what called me to do the duty. I had to know that in and out. When I was questioned and I was questioned often, I knew that I was filing regulatory guidance. I knew that in the end that regulatory guidance would come to bat for me. Now, that's the secular part.

Biblically, I knew that God was with me. I knew that he would give me the courage to stand in front of that opposition often and state what it is. Do not bat an eye. Do not shutter, but say what it is and move out, and smart. I thought that was very important. As my mother stated, it can get lonely but I'm not alone.

I may not have something tangible in my eyes that I can touch, but He is walking with me. He is moving those mountains that are mountains. They are mountains. Without him, I would not have made it for 22 years, but it's because of that. It's very important to know that your help is more than a tangible person. He's the God. He is the Alpha and Omega. When you know that, you can walk there.

Helena, you said that you may not be able to see it, but you know. We've been in battle. We've been to war and you can't always see your commander-in-chief right there, but you know and trust. I love that you said that. For anybody out there, you can do it the secular way and have to know somebody's there approving of you, but there are going to be times, I don't care if you're the most brilliant leader in the world where you're alone. That's where the Holy Spirit is the greatest co-commander of your life of all. Thank you, Helena. Gwendolyn, how about you? Did you ever have a time when you encountered loneliness?

I'm in the phase of my most loneliness right now in pursuing and bringing the purpose that I was given a number of years by God, or this gift that I was given by God a number of years ago to bring into fruition and where he wants it to be right now and reaching out and changing minds. It's a very difficult task. I call myself a change agent. To change the thoughts and mindset about things in terms of life and saving lives. That's my motto and that's the assignment that I was given to save lives and that's where the swimming comes in.

Right now, I'm at a place where there is not sometimes always the opportunity to have access to like-minded folks that can discuss exactly where I am or what's going on. To be in that area that I'm pursuing and make changes. With Bonita, even though we are in different professions and our work is different, we are still at the same place of working to bring them forth.

Where I am right now is probably my loneliest because my purpose is growing and moving into various areas that I haven't moved into before. It's coming together. I've had to go through many barriers and dynamics, but right now, it's taking shape. That means having to stay put, still, quiet, isolated, and call forth and pray quite a bit and ask God for directions and listen to that voice and those directions. For me, right now, is probably a place where I'm at my loneliest as things grow.

Thank you for your transparency. A lot of people think, "When I find my purpose, I'm going to wake up and it's all going to be different." That's false. The more you dial in your purpose, the more alone you're probably going to feel because you are calling is only your calling and God has to work that out in you. Thank you so much for sharing that because anybody might quit their purpose, and they're like, "Why isn't everybody celebrating it?" I'm like, "This is between you and God." You have to go through this, and if he doesn't give it to you alone, this has nothing to do with anybody else so thank you so much.

We talked about loneliness. The next thing my dad talked about is weariness. Helena, you know this and we all know this, you are going to have to be doing more than what you should be doing because there are people that aren't doing what they're supposed to be doing. It's s life. People complain about them, and I'm like, "It's life. We have to deal with it." How do you all stay at your top fighting form in business and ministry as mothers, spouses, and leaders? How do you combat weariness? Bonita, I'll start with you.

When you are divinely called to that role of leadership in every fold has not unfolded yet, but because I was divinely called. My catalyst for keeping going is the word of God. It tells me, "Do not grow weary in my well-doing," and that's it in the nutshell. That's what you said earlier, that's what I'm piggybacking on and I'm going to keep building within the last two because they are all a part of the divine package.

Do not grow weary in my well-doing.

Bonita, you had hit on it. The word starts in your mind. I don't care if you feel tired, that's your emotions. You start here, the word can then give you the energy, the divine package that you're talking about. I love that you went back to the word. I don't care if you feel tired, feelings mean nothing. We're going right back to the word and we have the mind of Christ.

That's exactly word the I've had hidden in my heart. The spirit knows you are weary. You need to know you are weary, but then when you acknowledge the truth, the truth comes and sends you the lifejacket.

I love that. Helena, how about you? You've been weary. How do you combat weariness?

Yes. When I become weary, it is because I'm not at my work. When I think, "I got this, God. I told you to do this one thing, but I got this one little piece of the task." As soon as I started, I become very weary, very overwhelmed, very anxious, and all of these adjectives. I say, "Helena, stop. What's wrong here? You are not centering the center of gravity on God. You're centering it on you and you're going to mess it up. Get back to the truth."

As soon as I do that, everybody's listening and soldiers are doing what they need to do. My husband's doing what he needs to do. That's how that works, but when I'm far and when I can do it on my own, that's when I don't. I have to quiet myself as Miss Gwendolyn said. "Lord, I must repent. I'm way out in the left field to get me back over there where I'm supposed to be. Please," and he does.

Gwendolyn, how about you? How do you combat weariness?

It's so interesting that we talking about this. I've been the head of the household and been running it where I raised my sons and with family, jobs, college education, and experiences. I recognized these shoulders were carrying too much. Sometimes didn't give me enough time to focus on what I need to be doing with what God said I need to be doing.

Most folks, family, and all of that don't usually understand that. You still have to move forward. What I have done, I started minimalizing and eliminating those things that weren't factors that were not going to move me forward with what God's will was. That meant materially. I had to let go of things and people. I had to get to myself and decide to get rid of the weariness so I could completely start focusing on what it is that I am to accomplish on this earth. I had to start eliminating those factors that were keeping me from that. That's what I've done.

Get rid of the weariness so you can completely start focusing on what you are to accomplish on this earth.

I started what I like to call purging. It's been very scary because I didn't have folks in there to replace them. I stayed patient with what God wanted to wait on him and send those replacements. Once I made room, got rid of those, and made those sacrifices of eliminating those things that were not moving me forward, I started getting more energized, and that's where I am now.

The weariness starts declining and it'll creep up and I'll get angry with myself. I'll get a little lazy when I'm weary. I'll sleep a little bit and take a little time. That's how I work with it for the last few years to eliminate those things and move forward with doing what I'm doing now. Taking another step. Anyway, I hope that helps.

It does. That tease up the third principle that you're going to have to pay, which is abandonment. Abandonment gets a negative thing like, "You were abandoned." When my father talks about leadership and I'm like, "How'd you get so successful?" He would say, "I do more today to contribute to my failure than my success." I'm like, "What?" He was like, "It's abandonment."

That means we need to stop doing what we like and want to do and start doing what we ought and need to do. It was this hyper-focus and you hit on it and Helena being in the military where you got to stay mission-focused. Bonita, with all these beautiful things going on in your life, God calls us to many different things, but how do you stay focused? Gwendolyn hit on it that it's the best and highest use of your time.

Abandonment is very essential. I'm always going to go back to that first thing. I'm divinely called. I have to qualify what I accept and what I don't accept where I go or will I not go? It has to be qualified. We have a knowing as Christian believers who are awake. We don't need to be doing that. It'll talk to you like I'm talking on this show. It's not coming in some scary voice or anything. It's something that you probably don't want to listen to, but you need to. What is this going to do for what I've been called to do? If it doesn't fit, then it's like me trying to wear two left shoes. In other words, qualifying what it is or what I'm being called to and asked to do. Sit still and qualify it. You'll get your answers. The answer will come. The bottom line, you don't have time to waste.

Even though God redeems the time, we want to be good stewards, and the biggest mistake I've ever made, you call it qualifying, is when I didn't vet the person and opportunity. I didn't ask God. "It sounds good. The Holy Spirit brought it." Helena, how about you? Can you talk to us about abandonment and how you stay on point?

I did struggle with this in the military. I would sometimes feel like my commander was abandoning me. I was his counterpart. I had to understand that he had a role and I had a role. Sometimes we're not going to say the same thing, but we're still getting the same end result. This allowed me to hone in on my faith. I had to tighten up my bootstraps and my faith walk because I couldn't see and I didn't understand. I consistently felt abandoned by him.

I would talk to him about, "Where are we at? Are we together? Are we not?" In the end, we were, but the Lord said, "Trust in me. I will work with him and you, but you have to have faith in me. You cannot have faith in him. If you have faith in him, you will feel abandoned. You will consistently fill out your outside of the game. Helena, get back in the game with me," and he will. In order to believe it, you have to have read it. In order to read it, that means that you had it deep within your heart. When going through, "I walk through the valley," not sit there, and eat a hamburger. You have to stay focused and move in faith. You won't be abandoned.

In order to believe it, you have to have read it. In order to read it, that means that you had it deep within your heart.

I even heard that with marriage, you don't grow together as husband and wife. You both grow to God and that's how you get closer to one another. That's not just a marital thing, that's a relationship thing, even with your children. Closer to God yields closer to one another in the relationship. Thank you, Helena. Gwendolyn, how about you with abandonment? You hit on your pruning and stuff like that and that's what abandonment is. It's getting rid of the things that are not the highest use of your time.

It's so important to say that these topics are so very on point for me right now in this walk where I am at this age. I am still struggling, at one time, through lots of prayers, with the abandonment of my adult sons. I had a very good relationship with them as they grew up. They are now, both professionals, and got their own families doing exceptionally well with their families, but the relationship and the connection that we had no longer exist.

I challenged myself and struggled hard with letting them go. My oldest one is 41, so he's good as an adult and a very solid young man and my youngest one is 39. They both have their own families and wonderful relationships. Both of them have been in good marriages for the last several years. They both got married and left to go on their own right in a few months. I didn't have time to adjust to moving from a mother to a mother-in-law. It's been a very difficult thing for me to feel as if sometimes I don't talk with them as well as much anymore because they're full of their lives and their own families.

That's the phase where I feel abandoned but through God and prayer. He said, "Let them go." He allowed me to see that they had done everything I wanted them to do and they are still doing very well. For me, that's very important right now. That's the most important relationship. That's my family. That's one of the areas that I admire with Bonita completely because she seems to be able to juggle her business and her relationships with her family, grandchildren, and daughters. I admire that completely. That's one of the areas that I cherish my relationship with her is because I get a chance to see how it works and she keeps going.

That's the disconnect and the place of abandonment that I am working on both spiritually and relationally. I had some good things happen with that. God opened doors and brought those relationships back to me. I had to stay put stay and quiet, but he's bringing them back that way. That's where I am with abandonment. All of these topics your dad put forth are right now very significant to me in this present place.

Gwendolyn, thanks again for your transparency and your honesty. I'll tell you that also brought up a thing, a twist on abandonment. When God closes a chapter or takes you out of something or puts you in loneliness and you do feel abandoned. When Bonita came out of the military, she felt abandoned because she was not one of the troops anymore, but there are seasons that come and go. Thank you for sharing that. We get a calling too, but you're still departing from something that was once in your life. Given God's glory that your heart is there and congratulations on raising such beautiful young men. The world needs more of that. You too, Bonita.

Loneliness, weariness, abandonment, and the last one we have is vision. My father is a pragmatist, a beautiful incredible motivator, and an eighth-grade dropout. It's not anything mystical. You don't have to have the IQ of Einstein or be Oprah or Mark Zuckerberg. He just said, "Vision is seeing what needs to be done and then doing it." Bonita, could you unpack the vision for us, and what it means for you? I know what you're going to say, but I never get tired of hearing it.

The words from loneliness, weariness, abandonment then vision, which is the foundation. The Bible simply says, "Without a vision, my people will perish." Without having something that you can physically see. Not only did you see it, but you also embraced it because you heard or read it. I remember the one scripture that the Holy Spirit showed me was Jeremiah 29:11, "For I know the plans I have for you." I remember my reaction. I said, "God, you got a plan? I need to do nothing but learn how to follow."

With that, I didn't see all of the things that he was telling me about how he was going to use me as his ambassador or his spokesperson. He told me, "Go study." General Colin Powell, look at what he did when he went to these different countries. He didn't speak on his own, but he spoke from the presidency. That's where he spoke from. He could only deliver the message that was given to him.

The vision, what he spoke to me is the one that has kept me rock solid in my valley days. Nobody knew what I was going through, but the vision held me steady. The vision taught me how to think. Hearing God's voice telling me, "Do this and that. Don't do this or don't do that." He used the military as a point of reference because he knew I knew how to soldier. He knew I knew how to take raw troops and make them into the lean mean fighting machine because I had that training as a drill sergeant. He would use the military to show me the world how to operate.

I had to learn how to operate in the spirit because the Bible is nothing but a spiritual weapon, but we don't look at it. We bring our colonel mindset and try to work it on our own. Both of these ladies have said is when you try to do it on your own, you are on your own, but when you use the word to guide, lead, and teach you, it's a no-brainer.

You sit back in the world, and even your closest friend or family says, "What are you doing?" "Nothing, because I'm at a place that I don’t have to do.” When you sow the seed, the farmer doesn't go back out there and dig that rascal up. We live around farmers. My children were raised around farmers. Gwendolyn would love to come out there where I live. She says, "You're right. You are this open." I don't see no farmer going out there digging up peanut seeds or cotton seeds when a storm has been posted. They leave that rascal in the ground.

That's what we have to do with our vision. Once we've embraced it, loneliness is coming and I'm holding on. For weariness, I'm holding on. For abandonment, "Don't sit over here. Bye-bye." Holding on steady. I have the freedom on your thing to talk about the word. The word is what got me free from my mental poverty mindset. That's all that had to change because the word is a change maker. Romans 12:1-2 says, transform this thing. "How do you do it?" It's by the word. Joshua 1:8, do this every day in and day out. That's a guarantee you can take to the bank when you don't have anything in the bank. You go, they got your money.

Claim that divine inheritance. I love that I will never look at fields again and I'm in South-Central PA and not think about that. He doesn't go up to the sea and say, "Are you growing? What are you doing?" It just happens. That's where it's supposed to be. I love it. How about you, Helena? What are your thoughts on vision?

Understand everything my mother said. I don't need to say much else. Vision means patience. People forget about that little one thing. It's important. "I saw the vision. I'm trying to walk there in it. Why isn't it taking place?" My ma just said, “It's because it takes time and it's not in your time, but when it comes it's there. Nobody's taking that back. Nobody's able to put that back in the ground. It's there, but it takes time.

During that time, you can't say, "I don't know where it is." No, be patient. That's important in the microwaveable society that we have now, but they want things right away. No, this is not what this is. It takes time. As Ms. Gwen talked about her children. I knew it took a lot of time and now they're doing their thing. You see the fruits of your labor. It takes time. The vision will come.

To your point, don't thwart it. Remember 40 years in the wilderness, it should have taken him a week. Why? Rather than waiting gratefully, they mumbled, grumbled, and they’ve thumbs sucked. When you do that, he will make you learn that lesson. He has more time than us. Wait gratefully upon him. How about you Gwendolyn? What are your thoughts on vision?

When you have a vision you have, that is something that is given to you. I have realized that a lot of people do not have a vision. You are lucky enough to have been given a vision of purpose, a vision of what it is you're supposed to be doing. Some days, I've had to question and I ask God, "Where in the world did I come from? Why did I get this? Why did you give me this?" Some of the visions I've had scared me to death. They were impossible. Some of them are still very much so. I think me as little Gwen thinks they're impossible, but he keeps wrestling with me and says, "This is what I've given you." That is what is.

For me, vision is the ability to be able to see what it is that you are supposed to be doing. It doesn't come with a straight road and we got that. For me to be able to stick with, not try to convince, but go ahead and do the vision that I know has been set for that I am to bring forth. A part of me along with others will be there to do that. The vision is so important for each of us. For me, it's pride and joy to be able to have been given the gift of having a vision. I've seen people that have no purpose and no idea. When you get forth and you see that, you say, "I'm blessed for having been given vision." That's where I am with that.

Vision is the ability to see what it is that you are supposed to be doing.

You think about Martin Luther King. I had a dream and I tell people that, but what is it? We say this like, "It's going to land him." You have to go find it, and it's what you are called to do, not what you want to do, and so you hit on that. That takes soul searching, humility, and patience. I look at Paul, how many times before he was blinded until he started ministry. How many years in the waiting?

The purpose of a vision, I love it because then it gets down into, it's all about God's calling, not the outcome. It gets it off of us and back on who it needs to be on. We talked about loneliness, weariness, abandonment, and vision. This is crazy beautiful. Before we wrap up, I want Bonita to share with us about your book that just came out. Could you tell us a little bit about that? Tell us about it and where they can get it.

Believe is on Amazon. It's a very simple book. The Holy Spirit said it doesn't take long to tell the truth. The price is cheap. You spend more than that at Starbucks for something that can be something that you rightly need right now. I can say that without any hesitation or reservation because the spirit knows what's out there, what's needed, and how to get it out there. If he used me to do a simple book, then I'm saying it's out there. Your life jacket is in that simple little book.

Believe

I didn't have time to go into my office and get Tracey your book that I ordered from Tremendous Leadership and it's a little bitty book. Mine is a little bit bigger than that, but it's something that you can put in your car, purse, or wherever you need because he's going to lead you to go get that book. You need answers and I got them written down.

The book is a timely piece. I'm working on the 2nd and 3rd ones, which piggyback off of Believe. Believe is like, "Believe what?" Whatever you're hearing, believe it, and he'll show you how to walk it out. I read the first female president of Liberia and her last name is Sirleaf. She said, "If your dream isn't scaring you, then it's too small.”

The Earth is the Lord and the fullness thereof. He knows how to use you. I was talking to a lady, she told me to just keep cooking. She told me that back in the '90s. I chuckled and said, "God, I kept cooking and followed the instructions, and look what I stirred up." I stirred up a book. I got a book signing. I got a restaurant in the home of the 39th longest-living president. That's what I stirred up by cooking.

David did even more than that. He got a place on the throne with a slingshot. What do you have? Don't minimize what we already have. You don't need to go get anything. You might need to go get the book, but other than that, because you don't have it. This show is divine. Tracey doesn't know me. I don't know Tracey, but her father left a platform on Earth. As I was doing what I was doing our paths crossed, not her, but her father. I never met her father, but then Tracey is on the scene now because he left something on Earth that needs to be still going and she's going with it.

I got invited because God put me here. He made the connection that we Christian people out here, need to get rid of the negative mind and get into the spiritual mind and stay there because you can live there. He tells you how to live on Earth. The first change is you and me. I'm the change. Once we get that, we can move with that vision. We can embrace all the different areas that we talked about and touched base on. That's part of the package and keep it moving. That's what I have to say in summary.

Leadership: Christian people need to get rid of the colonel mind, get into the spiritual mind, and stay there because we can live there. God tells you how to live on the earth. So we want to change. The first change is you and me. I'm the change.

Tracey, I want to thank you for doing what you're supposed to be doing at such a time as now. I want to thank these two young ladies. I sit back and I look at them, and I'm grateful. To be able to bring them to a bigger table who we know not of is to be commended. Thank you for your openness. You will continue with that legacy. The book changes people's lives. Let's read guys.

As you said, it's not what is the truth, it's who. I hope that's the one thing you leaders figured out. Stop thinking, "What am I supposed to do next?" It's who. Either, you're the truth or you're not the truth. Either God is God or you are. Until you solidify that, then I hope you've heard these leaders at all orients back to that.

Ladies, I can't thank you enough for the richness of this dialogue, what you shared, the blessings you brought me, for being so transparent about what's going on with your life, and for what you've done to make this world a better place. I can't wait to see what happens. Our readers are going to be so blessed. Thank you, Helena, Gwendolyn, and Bonita.

You're welcome, Dr. Tracey.

To our tremendous leaders out there, I know you have thoroughly enjoyed this. If you like what you heard and please do us the honor to hit the subscribe button and leave us a review. We'd love to hear your thoughts. Most importantly, if you were blessed by this, please hit the like and the share button, and share it with somebody else.

Again, to all the tremendous leaders out there, you will be the same person five years from now that you are now, except for two things, the people you meet and the books you read. I know you are a whole different person in this conversation. Be blessed and keep on paying the price of leadership. Have a tremendous day.

Important Links

• Bonita's Restaurant

• Believe

About Bonita Hightower

Bonita is a mover and shaker, businesswoman, Wife, Mother, Grandmother, Army Veteran (141/2) Speaker & Encourager.

Bonita and her husband Willie opened Bonita's Restaurant in Plains, GA in 2015. Bonita enjoys preparing down home. Southern cooking made from scratch.

She has many loyal customers, but famous people have enjoyed her food as well. President Jimmy Carter and his wife, Rosalyn, love the convenience of Bonita's delicious carry-out orders.

Adding value to other people's lives is a hallmark of Bonita's life. Serving others in her business, and. serving others through various ministry endeavors motivates her thoughts and actions each day.

She just released her new book, Believe, which is available on Amazon.

Episode 146 - Al Argo - Leaders on Leadership

As a leader, you have to be equipped with different skills to communicate and deal with things correctly. In addition, you have to be focused on overcoming adversity, making tough decisions, and staying committed to growth. Join your host, Dr. Tracey Jones, as she interviews Al Argo about all of these things and his unique perspective in leadership. Al Argo is a motivational speaker and author. He also speaks on overcoming adversity, gratitude in life and business influence, positive impact leadership, and missions. What price must you pay to be an effective leader? Al provides a deep dive into some of the components you have to deal with as a leader, including loneliness, weariness, and abandonment. How will you overcome these? Tune in!

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Al Argo - Leaders on Leadership

I'm so excited because my guest is the one, the only, the tremendous, Al Argo. Let me tell you a little bit about Al. Al is a skydiving accident survivor, a motivational speaker, an eight-time author and speaks on overcoming adversity, gratitude in life and business, influence, positive impact, leadership and missions, and helping you create ARGO, which stands for A Really Great Organization. Al is an expert in helping professionals achieve more, relate better, grow faster, and overcome obstacles. In addition to all that, he has been a dear friend of many years of my mother and father and myself as well. Al, thank you so much for being on our show.

Thank you, Dr. Tracey. What an honor to be with you and all of our readers.

Tell a little bit about the intersection of you and my father. I like to set the context of how long we've known people. I had a gentleman on who we connected on LinkedIn. Before I even knew about coming back to Tremendous Leadership, you were a part of Tremendous Leadership.

Your dad was always proud of you and his whole family. I first met Charles "Tremendous" Jones back in the early 1990s. I sold books for two summers with a company out of Nashville, Tennessee. That's how he and I connected. We stayed in touch. Toward the late '90s, I ended up transitioning over into Asia, began to work with John Maxwell training leaders overseas, and still work with a nonprofit organization that I've been with ever since then.

Your dad was coming over and visiting us, and then your mom came over and visited us different times, not once, but several times. He and I would speak not only to Christian Ministry groups like Haggai Institute, but we'd also speak for Corporate Asia. I remember doing events with the Napoleon Hill Foundation. He was so proud of you and thankful for all of his readers and listeners, not only in America but in Australia. I still run into fans of Charles from Australia. Several years ago, I did an author publishing masterclass down in Perth and came across fans. Even though he's been in heaven quite some time, his legacy, the influence and impact of Charles "Tremendous" Jones lives on.

He loved Australia, and we still get orders every now and then. They're effervesced and efficacious as he was. He loved them. I interviewed Nikita Koloff.  Al was one of the gentlemen in our monthly Godly Guys and Gals group, our little mini-mastermind, where we get together. We're all speakers, authors, and Christians who share with one another because that's what we're meant to do. Al brought me into this a few years ago. I was so honored. I'm like, "Do you want me to be with you guys?" It's been such a tremendous help.

I'm so thankful, not only for you but for Nikita and our whole group. It's a small group but very powerful and influential group. We're like your dad. Until his last breath, he was always learning. I tell people, "My name is Al. It's an acronym for a lot of things, but one of those things is Always Learning." I don't know if it was your dad or someone else, but they taught me always to have a book you're reading and writing. Those two things were huge in books. When I was a young boy, I didn't have a TV. All I had was a library. When I was 14, 15, my dad said, "If you want a TV, you can buy it." I bought and watched it for a little bit, but I never lost my love for books.

He took our TVs out of the house. We were in high school and didn't watch that much. This was in the early '70s. He's like, "You don't need that," and we didn't need it. We wrote book reports. I'm thankful for that. Let's get right into the topic of leadership. My father loved leadership, but he was very pragmatic about it. He did not shy away from the tougher side of it and had a speech called The Price of Leadership where he said that there are four components that if you truly are going to be a leader, there's a price that you're going to have to pay.

It's worth it, but you're going to have to pay for it. The first one he talked about was loneliness. We've all heard that it's lonely at the top. Could you unpack what loneliness means to you as a seasoned leader? Maybe share a time when you were in that season. Maybe a tool for our readers if they are walking in a time of loneliness.

I heard your dad speak to a lot of different audiences from the time I was in college to the time I was in ministry and Corporate Asia. All of us, whether we're brand-new leaders or seasoned leaders, can go through a season of loneliness, whether that's a short or extended period of time. For me, when I was selling books, that was hard because you're out there by yourself. I didn't know how to sell.

I began to learn how to sell when I was 14, 15, and then the company kept doing sales training. Continuous education and ongoing education are important. That's why you and I train in Corporate America, Asia, and different places. Loneliness is different than being alone. Leaders, by nature, oftentimes are alone. It doesn't have to impact us negatively. It's what I'm saying. We've served in Asia for twenty years, the first ten years in Singapore, and the last ten years, we've moved over into the Philippines. We travel a lot. The whole concept of loneliness is about making decisions that are tough and giving up the good for the great.

This goes into these criticisms that are tough. The next thing he talked about was weariness. If it's tough, it wears on you mentally, physically, spiritually, all that good stuff. How do you combat weariness so you can continue to go through those tougher seasons and still stay robust and strong enough to move forward?

Overcoming Adversity: The whole concept of loneliness is really about just making decisions that are tough and giving up the good for the great.

I'm a big believer that you give each day all you've got. I start the morning with journaling. I wish I'd begun to do this when I was in my early 20s or late teens, but I've honestly begun to do it in the last few years. I've not missed a day doing this consistently since I've started. I talked about yesterday and today, but I could talk about 4 or 5 years down the road in my journal. I'm not doing it by hand. I'm doing it right here on my laptop, and that way, I'll always have it with me. It's also searchable.

I write my to-do list in my journal, which is important, but I also write my goals. I even write a small prayer and a gratitude list. These are the things that I'm doing every day. As far as weariness, in particular, I also make sure that I rest well. I've written a book about morning habits called Wake Up and Shine, but I've often thought about writing a book on rest and the importance of sleep. How we combat weariness is we honor the Sabbath. It's okay to be tired, but we don't want to be too tired.

Someone passed away, and he left notes on his desk. This was an older preacher, a gentleman from North Carolina. Found on his desk was, "At the first sign of fatigue, I'm going to rest." I thought that's pretty interesting because I've not followed that. I work hard. I worked through my fatigue oftentimes, but this older preacher in North Carolina had a different view. That's interesting because we work hard, but we also want to rest as well. We honor the Sabbath and rest well at night.

How I've combated weariness is, one of the first things that I do in the morning is I drink lots of water. I've learned that from the Japanese. They drink water. While weariness comes, we don't want it to linger. It is part of the price that we or others have to pay. I've got an acronym toward the end when you asked me as we get through the next one because we've talked about loneliness, weariness and there are two more.

That glass of water thing is huge. When I reclaimed my health, that's the first thing I do in the morning. Go get and drink an eight-ounce glass of water. That's amazing what you do, but I love that you talk about you're being very intentional with writing down in the gratitude. Sometimes weariness comes from a lack of focus. You've pulled so many ways in, and you're tired. You're like, "I didn't get anything done," and then you feel more tired. How can you be tired if you are unproductive?

That lack of focus drains you, and that's getting to our next topic. You need to do a book on rest and the Sabbath because that is critical. We're still flesh and blood and the temple. We need to take care of that. The next thing my dad talked about was abandonment. Abandonment typically has a negative connotation, the fear of abandonment. In his world, abandonment was abandoning what you like and want to think about in favor of what you want and what you need. It was a real focus. I'm like, "How'd you get so successful?" He's like, "I do more in a day to contribute to my failure than I do my success." He would get spun off on other things. How do you abandon stuff and stay truly focused?

When a lot of people think about abandonment, it might have a negative connotation, but it doesn't have to be because it's us abandoning what? It might be good, but it's not God's will. It might be good, but it's not great. TV in and of itself, it might be good, but it's not great. I'm not preaching against TV. Back in the '70s and '80s, a lot of people preach against TV. One of the reasons why we grew up without TV is because someone preached against it, and my dad threw it away. Your dad probably did the same. When we talk about abandonment, it's about us giving up the mediocre for the incredible.

God promised us life and life more abundant. AL is an acronym for a lot of things, but it's also an acronym for Abundant Life. That's God's promise for you and me if we not only know about him but if we know him. God wants us to do four things. He wants us to know him and have freedom in him. Just because you know Him, it doesn't mean you have freedom. He wants us to know Him and have freedom. He wants us also to understand our purpose, whether that's Corporate America, Corporate Asia, or even ministry. Your dad loved the ministry. He often told me, like, "Why couldn't the Lord call me into the ministry?" I don't know if he ever told you that.

He did all the time.

I've been able to walk that fine line of ministry and marketplace. I love it. I'm so thankful for being able to work with the bankers in Nepal, tourism departments in very interesting countries across Asia. I'm very grateful for your dad and other mentors. This whole concept of abandonment is we give up the mediocre for the best for that day. I do write every morning. I don't do one thing every night, but as we're going to talk more, I do this often, is I review the day. I ask myself what went well and what I could've done better. I'm being transparent.

My morning routine is very solid as far as exercising, water, and getting my morning started. Those seven habits are outlined in the book, Wake Up and Shine. We're talking about the price of leadership. We've talked about loneliness, weariness, and abandonment. There's one more, which these three leads to vision, which is very important. Do you have any other comments on weariness?

No, weariness in your abandonment. I love that you are always looking at abandoning every day, and it's a daily thing. We were on point, but it's like your car. You constantly have to be tweaking, preventative maintenance, and rest. It's like you dust your house, and a day later, there's dust. It's a constant tending to getting out the weeds, the non-value-added, and staying on point. You never, ever can sit there, and maybe for ten seconds you can, and then stuff starts happening again. That was beautiful talking about abandonment.

Overcoming Adversity: How we combat weariness is how we honor the Sabbath. So it's okay to be tired. But we really don't want to be too tired.

We're talking about abandonment, and then I circled back to loneliness and weariness. If we rearrange those three things, I like acronyms and alliteration. I do this all the time, even with my last name, when I teach sales. Our sales professionals, if we give a great offer, that's what we want to do. As far as consulting organizations, we want to give ARGO and help build ARGO, which is A Really Great Organization.

If you rearrange those first three things, loneliness, weariness, and abandonment, it's LAW, Loneliness, Abandonment, and Weariness, and that's the law. A lot of our readers love the Lord and have a real relationship with Christ like you and I do. Some may not, and that's okay because we love everybody. We welcome everybody to your leadership broadcast. I love what you're doing, the people that you've interviewed since you've begun this.

I can't wait for the future, but we're not living under the law. We're living under grace. For me, have I dealt with loneliness? Yeah, we've dealt with it. Has it been a big issue? Not so much because I'm never alone. We have to abandon the mediocre to achieve God's best, but that's okay. We give up so we can go up. We grow weary. Sometimes we get tired, but it's not a big issue because we pay the price, but he paid the ultimate price.

I want to bring that out because it's close to Christmas. When he visited us over in Singapore, your dad told me these stories about keeping up the Christmas tree all year long. You can maybe give us more insight because I never got to come up to the house. To this day, I've never been up to where you grew up. Even when your dad passed away, I was overseas. It was very challenging for me to get back. I wanted to. In my spirit, I was there, but he told me these stories about keeping the Christmas tree up all year long.

We're coming into the Christmas season. As I prepared for this interview, I realized Loneliness, Abandonment, and Weariness are an acronym for LAW, but we have a vision. The law leads into vision. God gives vision. We know that verse where there is no vision, the people perish. Vision is also the price that we pay for leadership.

How do you hone your vision? Dad was pragmatic, down-to-earth, not fancy talk at all because he was real. He would say, "Vision is seeing what needs to be done and then doing it." How do you incorporate this into your leadership?

I'm a big believer in goal setting, but I also take action toward those goals. The Bible says, "Faith without works is dead." I shared that verse with a corporate audience in Asia. Some of these young people had never even heard that. We have a lot of faith in different things. I have faith in the chair that I'm sitting in. I have faith in the car that we drove up to speak at an engagement in North Carolina. If I'm flying to Asia, I certainly have faith in that airplane and the pilot.

Even with that pilot in that plane, that plane naturally will tend to get off course, and vision is the act of pulling it back on the course to make sure it gets to the right destination. Even before we were born, God knew all of our days. He understands our purpose and the plan that he has for life. Many people never discover that purpose. No wonder a lot of people aren't happy and don't have real peace.

Whether your purpose is working at the post office or driving a truck, or selling insurance, I met with a guy who's been in the insurance for several years. I told him about your dad. I was like, "You got to read some of these books." Every one of us has a purpose and a vision. If we get it, we'll understand that the desires in our hearts were probably put there by God.

I love that you tied it back to freedom. I heard a quote and tried to find who did it, but they said, "For the center, this world is the closest to heaven they're going to get. For the saint, this world is the closest to how they're ever going to get." Even in our most lonely, tired, messed-up days, we have that freedom. I love that you brought that because that gets the wind back in your sails. We don't just do it on our own.

Those of us that have the faith paradigm know may be alone, but never all alone. When we are weak, he is strong, and abandonment is constantly, as Paul said, "Dying to self," and then we get into another biblical principle of vision where there is no vision that people perish. I thank you for that, Al, and those insights and how you're weaving that into all aspects of your life.

I believe that the best for you and me is yet to come. We have to keep learning and also apply what we're learning.

Overcoming Adversity: We just have to keep learning and also applying while we're learning.

Somebody told me this, "Embrace, but then you have to integrate. Faith without works is dead." We're still learning, but our minds, all the leadership stuff says, cognitively, if you keep your mind active, you can stave off senility, all that stuff. Retirement is not a biblical principle. We're meant to keep going and growing. That's why I love our tremendous fan base because these are seasoned people that already have 1, 2, 3, 4 great successful careers. They're always still like, "There's more." That's what true leaders do, always growing and sowing.

Somebody at lunch asked me where I plan to retire, and I'm like, "Retirement is not even in my mind." I'm barely half a century. I'm so grateful that I've known your dad and family for many years. I declare that for me and my future and the ministry, the marketplace, everything that our hands, the consulting or the books. I love Asia. We've invested two decades. The legacy, the generation that will come as the Lord tarries.

They asked me, "Where do you want to retire?" I'm like, "I want to live forever in Asia." The truth is I go back and forth. I'm at home in America, even though the weather's getting cold. This will be my first Thanksgiving in America since 2015. I'm very thankful to have a Thanksgiving birthday and Christmas in the US in 2021. It's interesting but cold.

Come up to Pennsylvania, where it's even colder, and we'll give you some beautiful winter.

Do you have your Christmas tree up yet?

No, after Thanksgiving. I like to add, "Keep a tree up all year round," because that reminded him every day about the birth of Jesus. When you look at that every day, it helps keep you focused. Every day, there's my reminder that this price was paid for me, and I can live as a free, liberated child and claim my inheritance. I love the tree.

I don't keep a tree up all year round, but maybe we should.

I changed mine out every month. It's a seasonal tree, but it still is the joy of the seasons, the remembrances. It all hearkens back to the birth of Christ. We have Easter for the resurrection, all those data points, and everything in between. We've covered the four points. Share with our readers, too, how you do walk in the ministry and the marketplace? I want you to share a little bit about your ministry and what you're doing with that?

Our purpose in Asia and even in America is to teach. I tell people that it's all about the team. I like acronyms. We're all about Teaching, Equipping, Activating, and Mobilizing. That's an acronym for TEAM. Specifically, we want to help the Asian church move forward and become all that God wants them to be in the ministry. In the marketplace, we want companies to make sure that they hire the right people. I'm teaming with a group of high-level industrial psychologists who've developed software to help HR departments hire the right people. We're not talking about small companies, but these are companies that are 500, 1,000, 1,500, 5,000 employees or more, whether it's Asia or America.

In the ministry, for many years, whether it's a relief in Indonesia after the tsunami, we'd help train a team of locals and were mobilized immediately to go in after the Christmas tsunami back in 2004. It killed 144,000 people in 15 minutes. It's a hard area to get into, but the US government under the USAID got in. We got in as a religious nonprofit. They're still effective ministries in that area there in Indonesia. We work with Bible schools across Southeast Asia. We do relief, whether it's the tsunami. We've done volcano and typhoon reliefs. It's very sad, some of the craziness.

When you talk about loneliness, abandonment, and weariness, when you see some of that without the grace of God, you can tend to go that way. Thank God for vision and provision. The ministry may be a relief, or education, whether that's elementary education or reading programs. One of the reasons why I do the books is to promote literacy and encourage children and parents to read to children. Our readers can find the kids' books on Amazon. We promote literacy, do relief, leadership training for the church and corporate. I get bored easily. Someone told me not long ago, "You might have ADHD." I'm like, "I've never been diagnosed with that." They went on to say, "If you do, you manage it well."

It's like loneliness and weariness. It can be a good thing.

I don't want my hand in too much. Whatever I do to be done with excellence, and I want it to be fruitful. We've talked about vision, but we also need people to pray for us and support us, but we need people you and I can delegate work to. John Maxwell always teaches that you inspect what you expect. That's so important. There are other aspects of leadership, including numbers. I may not be a natural numbers guy, but I understand that numbers tell a story. At the end of the day, if I know the numbers that matter, I can see how my day went. Whether that's a Sunday in church or a Monday through Friday in corporate, the numbers always tell a story.

Overcoming Adversity: We need people not only to pray for us and support us, but we need people to help, that you and I can delegate work to.

Al, what is the best way for people to get in touch with you?

Anyone who might want to donate to the ministry can receive a tax deduction if they're given in America. I have a URL, a short link that would go right to the ministry site. It's www.Bit.do/AsiaMissions. If they want to look at the books, they can search Al Argo on Amazon or Al Argo on Audible. If they want to get in touch with me as far as consulting or some of the HR work we've been doing, or to ask a personal question, they can connect with me on LinkedIn and message me.

There's only one Al Argo on LinkedIn. That's a skydiving accident survivor, author, and consultant. There is a couple more Al Argos out there on LinkedIn, but they don't have any pictures. I'm not sure who they are, or even if it's a fake profile, but my LinkedIn profile has a picture and it is very clear which one it would be.

Touch on some of your children's books because the readers need to know you've got some kids' books, too.

Thank you. When I was down in Australia, my event organizer named Chris, he’s a pastor, a corporate guy, and an all-around good guy. He's my good friend. I've known him for years. We've attended events together in Canada and America. He was coming up to Singapore and the Philippines to see us. He invited me down to do not only speak at a leadership event, but we also did an author training masterclass. On the night before I was leaving Australia, he took us out for ice cream. In that ice cream shop, he got the hiccups. In the Deep South where I'm from, if you get the hiccups, you're going to get scared.

I looked over at him and scared him. He never had that happen. He had a fit. The whole ice cream shop got silent. We all bust out laughing because his hiccups were gone. I made a comment. I said, "Don't worry. I've written the book on hiccups." I was joking, but the next morning at the airport, I wrote this cute, almost like a Dr. Seuss type rhyme. It all rhymes.

At the end of the book, I wrote about 5 to 7 true hiccup facts. This is a book for early readers. It rhymes like Dr. Seuss. All the artworks are hand-drawn. All the parents and the little kids love. That was the first book. I wrote a book about hiccups, and it's based in Australia. A couple of days later, I wrote one about doing number two, which all kids have questions about. I didn't realize a lot of parents would go to that book when their kids had questions about potty training, but that's pretty interesting.

I wrote one about hiccups and then sneezing. Those are the four books in the kid's series called The Adventures of Chris. Chris is a real person. All the books are educational, and our goal is to give away 1 million books in Asia. What we do is whenever someone buys a book on Amazon or they buy a book at one of our events, we immediately donate a book in Asia as well. It's a neat little giving model that we have.

Al, thank you so much for what you meant to my family, the blessing you continue to be to me and for sharing your wisdom with our leaders out there and our Tremendous Tribe.

What a tremendous opportunity to be with you. We have the opportunity to be together every month via our speaker and author mastermind. Thank you for being a part of that. Thank you for being a friend to our family and ministry. We appreciate your prayer and support and friendship. It means a lot to us, and we love you. I love your mom and your dad. They're great people.

You as well, Al. Thank you so much. To our tremendous readers out there, thank you so much for taking the time to read. If you haven't done so yet, please hit the subscribe button so you don't miss another episode. If you do us, the honor of a five-star review, we’d be so thankful. Drop us a note, we'd go ahead, and I forward anything you say to Al, and we answer all of our responses.

Please, make sure you go over to TremendousLeadership.com, sign up for our email letter, where you automatically receive two free weeks of eBooks in addition to making sure you don't miss another episode. To our tremendous leaders out there, you keep on paying the price of leadership. We're right there with you. We're so thankful for you.

Important Links:

• Al Argo

• Wake Up and Shine

• www.Bit.do/AsiaMissions

• Al Argo - Amazon

• Al Argo - Audible

• The Adventures of Chris

About Al Argo

Al is a Skydiving Accident Survivor, Motivational Speaker, 8x-Author, Speaks on Overcoming Adversity, Gratitude in Life & Business, Influence, Positive Impact Leadership & Missions. Helping you create ARGO (A Really Great Organization!)