Episode 176 - Dr. Lee Hardin - Leaders on Leadership
Leadership is a journey of shared vision. In this episode, we dig deeper into the community value of leadership with our exceptional guest, Lee Hardin. Drawing from his extensive military experience, Lee shares his leadership's core principles, emphasizing the importance of self-awareness and the art of balancing vision with practicality. He discusses the challenges of leadership, touching on the feelings of loneliness and weariness that leaders often encounter. But more than that, Lee explores the concept of "shared vision" and how it's a linchpin in achieving success. He discusses the significance of collective goals and the power of a team viewing objectives through the same lens. It's a reminder that, in leadership, the synergy of shared vision keeps teams united and motivated. Tune in and discover how to lead with a purpose, build a shared vision, and balance your strengths to make a positive impact.
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Dr. Lee Hardin - Leaders on Leadership
In this episode, I'm very excited to introduce you to my guest, Dr. Lee Hardin. Welcome, Lee.
Thank you so much for having me on. I greatly appreciate it.
You're welcome. Let me tell you a little bit about Dr. Lee Hardin. He holds a PhD in Educational Psychology from Temple. He has a Master's in Instructional Technology from Bloomsburg. He is an active Army duty officer with many years of service in the Pennsylvania Army National Guard. He was an Iraqi veteran from 2005 to 2006 at Al-Ramadi, Iraq.
Lee is also an adjunct professor in the College of Education and Human Development at Temple Research Interests in Executive Function/Self-Regulation Gamification and Instructional Design. Most of all, he is the father of three boys and has been happily married for many years. Lee, we're delighted to have you.
I should hire you for all my introductions. Thank you so much. That was so nice.
You're welcome. I'm excited for our readers out here. I always like to tell you how Lee and I connected. Lee reached out to me on LinkedIn. You saw somebody American College of Veteran Services. You said hey as a PhD and vet. We connected. I'm excited we did connect. After hearing about your educational background and your love of continuous learning and our country, I said, “I got to have you on this show.” Thank you for saying yes to my request.
Thank you so much for the great resources, especially since we're locals in Carlisle. There's a lot of military history, heritage, and connections that I made with the communities. The community is large. I'm thankful that's happened to it. It's great to meet you.
Thank you. You served under one of our previous guests, Major General John Gronski.
I could speak accolades upon accolades about that man. He's a wonderful person and has been very influential in my career, for my father as well who served with him. I was amazed that once we started connecting, I saw he was on your show. I go to the episode. It was great. He's written two books. I've had many interactions with him over the years and I'll share these stories here. He's great.
We got so much positive feedback on that as I'm sure we'll get on yours. Readers, this is Lee's very first guesting.
I’m starting at the top.
We're going to be talking about leadership. One of my father Charlie “Tremendous” Jones’ speeches was called The Price Of Leadership. After growing an insurance industry and growing his consulting company, he said, “For you to be in leadership, you're going to have to pay the price so you're not a LINO or Leader In Name Only.”
The first price of leadership is loneliness. We've all heard that's why a lot of people don't want to go to leadership because they still want to have friends and family over for dinner like I was in a family business. Can you talk to us about what loneliness means to you as a leader and maybe share a time when you went through a season of loneliness?
After reading some of the tenets that your father brought up, that's probably one of the biggest ones that hit me. Every organization and industry is different. Some places have a hierarchy that you start at maybe at the bottom or entry level and you work your way up. It hinted toward there when you explained it. You make a lot of friends along the way. It gets very difficult when you become in those supervisory, managerial, director, or executive level positions. It's hard to cut ties but you still also want to keep that interpersonal connection you made with people.
The military is a very small community. You're always around people you always meet. In the education academic field, it's very much the same. The big thing that I encountered was that we all have our passions. There are certain things that we like. Sometimes you join an organization where the culture is a little bit different. There may be something that you coming in as a leader.
There are predecessors prior to you who set certain standards and tones good or bad. It may work or may not. Making that assessment and trying to figure out, “Now that I'm the new person in here, how to give my flavor and my vision as well while also ensuring that people are still productive, happy to be there, and also buying into what I'm trying to get them all on board with?”
The big thing for me was that I had a Master’s in Instructional Technology. One thing that I was more tech-forward than a lot of people, for example, was when I first joined Temple many years ago. My role was in charge of teaching all the teachers. I was running faculty workshops to improve them and their abilities to lead various online courses and asynchronous courses. PhD people are wonderful. They are incredibly knowledgeable and smart. They know their research interests very well but not a lot of them can utilize technology. They can't convey communication very well. They may know a lot of things but maybe communicating and being a good teacher is sometimes a challenge.
They take these workshops or self-development which is wonderful and outleading in spearheading a lot of the HR initiatives for these technology workshops. The one thing that I thought was interesting, and this is maybe for some of the younger/older readers, is if you've ever been to a conference where a speaker how to PowerPoint, they ask you to pull out your phone and maybe buzz on in with a certain answer to a question or something like that, it’s like polling the audience, giving feedback, and also getting people engaged.
The technology at the time when I first joined Temple was making students with these remote control devices or clickers from the bookstore. It costs a lot of money. There were a lot of problems with it. I'm like, “Kids have smartphones. This is not a new technology. It is something that a lot of other places and corporations use. We should be embracing a lot of the new changes and getting rid of some of this old stuff because there are so many problems.”
The big driver of that was noticing how many complaints were coming from students. How many calls were going into the tech center? Their clickers don't work, “I lost my clicker.” Faculty were upset with it because they weren't getting accurate results and data. Sometimes when you're lonely with a passion like, “This is a technology we probably should be going in,” it's hard when there are people who may not understand it. They may be also afraid to invest in it. They may be afraid to spend money on it and learn something new.
As adults with adult learning theories here, we are resistant to change. It's trying to get people invested in buying in. Sometimes, I feel the biggest challenge that I have with the loneliest factor, a lot of things, is that we come from different organizations. You're being hired for a reason because you have expertise, how can you also get people at least maybe not passionate about it? They can understand that this is a benefit. That is the biggest thing that sometimes has trickle effects on everybody else.
That's valuable because you are an outsider and you were hired for something. As an early adapter, you may be the only one that sees it. What would you recommend out there? Is there a certain time frame? You always have some naysayers and that's fine. We know that but what would you recommend people when they're in that phase? That is a little unsettling. You're brought in and you see it but you don't know who else is going to see it.
If there are reasons why change needs to occur, maybe the company is here and there is a new direction and end goal in sight that we need to be at this level maybe because the current operation is not meeting quotas or certain standards, a solution and intervention has to be brought in there. Assessing the culture and knowing, “Are the people unhappy? How the previous administration or certain things were going on? Was there some negativity? Are they stuck in their ways for a certain reason?”
Trying to pull and get as much data information is key. Understanding where people are, bringing them into the room, having candid conversations, getting opinions, and then trying to pivot a little bit to show that, “This is what you have but here is a benefit that we probably need.” You would agree in trying to get them with that type of terminology and language. Can they understand that there's a benefit here that maybe would reduce the amount of work you're doing, maybe improve communications in a way, or there would maybe a faster process of getting from this step to this step if we do this new way?
It could fail but also understanding and explaining risk to. Making it sound like it's going to benefit them and make their life or the process a little bit easier. Sometimes people in certain situations, depending on how long they've been there or whatever their role may be are looking in there. There are small bubbles and how it affects them or their team. They are good manager and leaders. They're all looking out for their people below as well like, “Is this creating more work? Is this going to hinder my progress?” Trying to bridge those gaps and find the best solution sometimes is the way that I always sell. Let's look at the organizational and team benefits. Those are the two I always go with.
I love that you talked about getting the people on board, especially as an educator. I read this book. It came out in the ‘50s. I had to tell what you know and it was about how to teach foremen to teach managers. You used to go out behind the back at the shop and pummel each other. We don't do that anymore. They said, “People can only learn new knowledge when you put it on an overlay of something they already know.”
People can only learn new knowledge when you put it on an overlay of something.
To your point, when you are coming on with something new to them, you have to drop it down and build on something even if you have a PhD, 2 or 3. That's how we learn. I remember when people would tell me stuff, I was like, “It's flying over my head. I have nothing to link it to.” Knowledge can only be built on knowledge. You can't just input something new. It has to be traced back.
For educators and loneliness, it's a matter of people saying, “They don't get it. They don't like change.” That's never the case. We're all in the world. It's 2003. You may not be a fan of change but there's something else going on there. We're having trouble linking it to something in the real world or there's a trust issue, which doesn't mean we don't like change. It means we don't trust the person giving us that. I don't know if we talked about bringing that down, especially to very smart educators who get that knowledge that is always changing. They're not afraid of new knowledge. What we get paid to do is find new knowledge.
To add to your point, every industry is different with different readers out there. What is the demographic? What is the client? What is the customer? Especially when it comes to academia, they're young. 18 to 22-year-olds are a primary demographic there. They're used to using a lot of technology. That's common sense to them that you have educators who are very experienced, knowledgeable, and probably very good teachers.
Organizations change software all the time. They upgrade new systems, different types of websites, and computers. There are a lot of things that are obstacles to overcome. You can say that gets in the way of learning. That's the bureaucracy of every single industry you're dealing with, how to reach your client in addition to all the other tasks that support and supplement it. You can still reach them but it may not be the most effective way anymore in five years.
Shared Vision: That's the bureaucracy of every single kind of industry you're dealing with, how to reach your client in addition to all the other tasks that support and supplement it. You can still reach them, but it may not be the most effective way anymore.
Reaching is teaching. The more I stop consulting or trying to motivate people and teach, it's remarkable. Can we talk about all the great things from when social media first came out? Kids, you can laugh but this was a long time ago. On Twitter a few years ago, I was like, “I'm not doing this.” Somebody says, “Let me show you.” They set it up and I'm like, “That was easy.”
It’s like ChatGPT. I'm like, “What is this? This is dumbing people down. This is an abomination.” Somebody says, “Put something in there and type it.” I'm like, “Are you kidding me?” I was so reticent because I didn't know what I didn't know. They call it, “You are unconsciously unconscious.” People see, “This isn't that big of a threat and deal.” The benefits of it are remarkable.
I was feeling lonely for a while because I had so many people I needed to give me products. I was waiting for them. I'm like, “As a solopreneur, it's already lonely enough when you're waiting for people but this has allowed me to get ten times the work done and keep focusing on my interaction with people and not be in this lonely space of I can't move forward.” That's my ChatGPT plug right there.
A lot of people still have those reservations. Is it a perfect system? No. There are still a lot of things that need to be explored but it's managed responsibly. It responsibly embracing. We need to welcome something new but also be cautious about how it's being used. Some people are worried about, “This will replace a job here and there.” Not necessarily.
There are a lot of nuances in human experiences that come into a lot of the work that we do, especially when it comes to leadership, managing people, and resources. Can AI do that? Not necessarily. Maybe in the future, sure but I don't think that's something that we're going to have to necessarily deal with regulation and government oversight. Also, industry oversight. How can we choose how we want to use this? To your point, exploring is good. Being always cautious and asking questions of why and how is going to help frame your mindset moving forward.
Exploring is good, but being always cautious and asking questions why and how, that's going to help frame your mindset moving forward.
We talked about loneliness. How about weariness? My dad would always tell me, “If you're going to be out there leading, you're going to get some people that do way more than what's expected and a lot that don't.” You think everybody in the military is. People are everybody else. There are super soldiers and then there are people who are checking the clock until a retired on active duty would call, a road sergeant. How do you stay on top fighting from you're teaching, father, husband, creating content and you're serving in the military and deploying? How do you combat weariness?
Loneliness is number one. Weariness is right behind there. Burnout is inevitable no matter who you are. There are different types of burnout whether it is physical, mental, emotional, spiritual, or whatever it may be that you're experiencing. Life throws things at us that are also additional obstacles that get in the way of us and our trajectory. It's a lot working to jobs. I'm very thankful for my family. My family is a bedrock.
I learned that I could not always do it by myself. When I was a young soldier, very hungry, and wanted to get out there and do everything, that was great. That was a good time in my life. As new responsibilities came forward, I had to also push aside the persona of being strong and tough, asking for help and not being afraid to do so. A lot of people are afraid to ask even their peers. Even asking your team if you have subordinates or other people out there. They want everyone to succeed. They don't want to have drama or trouble at work.
If there's a way that people can pitch in, great. With weariness, it's your responsibility to understand what helps you blow off some steam. I've always been active. I was a collegiate athlete. I swam in college. Though I miss the water, and I wish I could get in the water more often, I can't but with my kids teaching them to swim and things like that, it's great. Working out is probably so much the one thing that I'll always dedicate 30 minutes of my time to. I can do 30 minutes in various ways.
It's not like I'm working out like I used to when I was younger. A lot of time catches up with you. Flexibility and mobility are key. The one thing that I've learned in the last few years with all the new responsibilities that I've been dealing with is that the other thing that would make it more nagging and terrible is if I also have bad knees, bad back, or things that are hurting me. I'm also dealing with these mental issues and these things that are at work, and all these tasks I have to deal with. I have to add on an injury or something like that. That's not something that I ever want to go through ever again.
I've had some injuries before and it makes things a lot more complicated. I feel that even if it is yoga, stretching, or anything like that where that's getting you up and moving, it's a part of self-care and that's one thing that you can't make others do for you. It's not in other care. Self-care comes in many forms. Reading books is always great too for mental fatigue. Some people have a negative concept of maybe binge-watching a show. There are some times when you do need to turn off for a little bit and not be the director, president, or whatever your title may be.
Tap into some creative or imaginative aspects. For me and being a parent, my kids are getting to the age where we are being careful with video games and stuff like that. That gets a bad rap but I'm very passionate about that. There are a lot of puzzle processes and benefits of it. I see my kids light up when they're overcoming a challenge, working with them, and playing it together. You are creating memories and it's fun. Seeing their joy is residual. A smile is contagious. Those are the things that I tap into as much as I can. It is a little bit of time for me but a little bit of time for my family. It sets things all in the right way. That's for me.
I love the physical aspect of it. For those out there who have been in the military, we were taught early on. We were gym rats. Your physical conditioning was an integral part of it. For people that are in their mid-40s, people are like, “He's still in the prime.” We're all in our prime. I don't care if you go away from it for twenty years. Your body doesn't forget. There have been times when I have been away from working out for fifteen years. If I'm back in four weeks, I'm telling you, I am almost where I was before honestly.
You look at the people in their 70s, 80s, or 90s. We got people walking around. You got to finish the race strong and take care of the shell. You will live. There's no reason why we should all live to be 120 if we stay highway proportionate and stay away from the big lifestyle illnesses like stress, smoking, drinking, and bad eating. The body is the beautiful thing that God created. We have to watch out for that. Listen to yourself. I can't read your mind. I'm not God. You have to take care of yourself.
It's good to indulge in a nice dessert here. Be happy with it. It's never too late to start. There are going to be benefits that come from it even in 1 week or 2. Have some consistency. Get out of bed maybe a little bit faster and not feel back pain. Those are the things you're working for. It's longevity. It’s feeling good. That unlocks more potential and other opportunities to do other things as well. That's where I'm looking at my kids and seeing how active they are. I want to be active for them.
I want to get out there, play wall, and do all those good things. Get outside, enjoy the weather that we have, and see the beautiful fall colors and stuff. That's the stuff that I want to do. It's staying focused and making a routine regimen. Some people may see that as an extra burden but it’s not. It's a way to keep your home spirituality and mind free to move on to other tasks. That's the way I look at it.
Shared Vision: Staying focused and making a routine, a regimen. Some people may see that as an extra burden, it's not though. It's a way to also keep your home, spirituality, and your own mind free to move on to other tasks too.
The body is the temple. Respect and take care of it. The other thing is for everybody's aging, either you get year equipped to take care of yourself or you've got to have somebody take care of you. I'm strong. I thank God for my health. I take my health very seriously but I am here because I want to be able to take care of people. It's a selfless thing. It's not like, “Why should I do this?” Either you're going to be in a home or something.
Half of Americans have been on a medicine for X number of years. I'm not talking about genetic stuff. I'm talking about stuff that you should deal with and then get off. It's not a good habit. There are always repercussions and unintended consequences. Your body, if left to, is the right thing and a lot of natural things. We were in the military with our clearances. There are a lot of things I couldn't take and I'm thankful I couldn't take them. I had to figure out a way to solve anxiety or depression. I did. I came through it as a situational thing.
That goes back to the first point of being able to open up. If you can't do certain things, find resources because there's plenty out there. There are always alternative forms and things that can help you out. People have expertise in different areas and stuff. Leverage that stuff. That's 100%.
Thank you. We've talked about loneliness and weariness. The next topic my father talked about was abandonment. I saw your puppy earlier. For us abandonment has a negative connotation. You abandoned your dog or fear of abandonment. One of the fears is people stay in toxic relationships because they’re like, “Bad is better than nothing.”
He said, “Abandonment is to stop thinking about what you like and want to think about in favor of what you ought and need to think about.” It's abandoning the things that are not the highest and best use of your calling, whether it be a sideline, a habit, or a friend. He's talking about pruning and getting very focused on the battle plan of what's next. Can you talk to us about that? You're juggling a lot of places. How do you stay focused on what you need to be focused on? I'm sure you get asked to do 100 different things on any given week.
I'm sure everyone does. Everyone's got different situations. That's where reaching out to you and starting this journey. I realized that I was living two lives. I'm in the military. There are a lot of different types of things and demands but also at the same time, I went out on my own. I was doing night school. I spent eleven years of my life in college, getting a Master's, a PhD, and everything. That was a very lonely journey because you're working a full day, 9:00 to 5:00, and at night, spending lots of hours in classes and then writing papers. Kids are also involved.
I'm very thankful for my parents. My dad was an active duty service member. I was an Army brat born in Maryland. We moved around. My mom was a nurse. She did certain periods. She was the breadwinner. She was making money because nursing is a great field to be in as well. The long-term goal that was established early on was I look at why my parents did. They were very supportive and encouraging. My brother and I were the first people to go to college. We wanted to get a degree.
I didn't necessarily know even while I was doing all these things what I wanted to do until probably my mid-twenties. I realized the passion that I had to be a teacher and an educator. As a leader, you have to be that too. It's not just by being in a classroom and a professor. There are things that you have to manage. There are three major skills that I keep looking at with my personality. I have some strengths and certain weaknesses.
The major end goal where I want to be is trying to find, “The military is not going to last forever. How can I improve myself so I can better than also transition into other areas in academia, corporate, or whatever it may be and also still have the same skills that I've developed in the military but also look at ways of improving myself and getting myself out there to learn new things?” I don't know everything. A degree is a wonderful thing. Having letters and stuff next to your name is awesome. Time keeps moving forward, research and new education.
A lot of things that I'm always passionate about are going to be education. I would like to see, “Where am I going to be in ten years from now?” I'm hoping that I am with a team that is as energized and fired up about certain things as I am. It's a great camaraderie and moral thing but also being a person who is very empathetic and able to take care of people. I want to continue teaching and educating but also dive into other realms of research, maybe write a book and do another study or two, and hopefully would help future veterans or do a study that is helping out mid-level or small leaders impacts of training.
Those are things that I feel, “How can I leave a lasting mark?” It's hard to see those far-away goals sometimes. Making long-term goals is important but the short-term ones too are as important. What can you do in the next year? What can you do in the next two years? When can I do my next phase of military education? Do I want to get another degree? I don't know about that one but at least where can I focus my time to make it most beneficial to meet that final goal?
Making long-term goals is important, but the short-term ones too are just as important.
One thing to wrap a bow on it is my research on executive function. Executive function is a set of skills and we all have it. What makes you a competent human being? You have certain needs and decisions to make every day. Executive function is a set of skills of you establishing a goal and then thinking about the best ways available to you at this point to get that goal. The final piece is regulating your behavior to do it. That is a problem with many people.
We have different motivations, extrinsic and intrinsic. Things are more prioritized. Something's more rewarding to us or more gravitated towards this. Think of people who are like, “New Year's comes around. I'd like to have a New Year's resolution where I would only lose weight.”They have an established goal. They think about certain things that they may want to cut out of their life. Some of those bad habits, maybe no more soda. “You have a lot of sugar. I can't have that.”
The hard part is regulating the behavior and staying on track. Sometimes making goals is very nice. They have their hardship. Finding the smaller achievable goals to build to the long-term goal is probably the best way. I'm trying to explore, “Where am I going? I have an open road ahead of me. I still have a few years of military service left,” but at the same time, I want to make sure that that time is also going to be beneficial to move to the next step of my life.
You talked about your ideal. The wonderful exercise is, “Here we are and where we're going to be.” Anything that isn't up here and down here, you don't drag with you. A lot of people struggle with abandonment because they haven't determined exactly what they want. If you haven't taken the time to understand who you are, you can't understand anybody else until you understand yourself. Leadership is self-awareness. I know how I'm perceived, who's going to get me, and who's not going to get me but that's beautiful that you talk about your goals than anything. You can say, “Eventually, this is going to all dovetail into getting me where I want to be in ten years. It stays on the plate.”
You even talked about getting your PhD when you go back in for school, an advanced degree, or certification. You have to take stuff off. You have to abandon things that maybe you did before. You may go into mixers, fun, or vacation. You can't do that now because your end goal is this and there's only a certain amount of hours in a day. I like that. Goals help you stay at the forefront of what gets packed in the bag for the next level of the ascent and what stays at base camp. You're like, “I outgrew this. I don't need this anymore.”
Saying no is a very powerful thing. It's tough to do, especially with friends and other things but sometimes making sure you circle back to what does matter to you. Abandoning is tough. That's a very strong word.
It's something you did once. Saying no always means something's dying off but that's okay because abandonment means new growth can't happen until the dead disease is dying or pruning off. We're getting into fall but come spring, you whack everything off because if you don't, there's no explosive growth. You can't keep going and doing all the old things you used to do.
We're not made that way. We can't do it. We go through seasons. We're in this season. You're coming out of your military season. I did that many years ago. I had to go, “That worked for me. What do I bring along the way that is still all the skillsets?” There are things I had to stop doing and relationships I let go of because we're onto something else.
There's always going to be transitions with every type of job. It is not just the military out there that people are going to retire and move on. “You got that pension or whatever it may be.” There are certain goals you may have attained and then you want to move on to the next set. That's great. I'm not sure exactly even for me in my stage what is it even out there. That's where I feel that I'm doing my research and seeing what other opportunities could there be.
There's always going to be transitions with every type of job.
Maybe academia is where I would want to end up but what if there's an opportunity for me to also help government work or something with the corporate sector that I can get passionate about? I'm not saying no to anything. It's more about seeing what is the best way that I can move forward that will also help enhance my family's life and my values.
You're doing the heavy lifting and figuring out what you want. People say, “What's next? I haven't thought about it.” You're going to have to. We don't retire from something. We retire to something. That takes strategic planning and tactical. It takes setting some real things together. We have friends who got out of the military after 20 or 30 years and that's it. They didn't look long unfortunately because if you don't have a purpose and stuff like that, you're like, “What else is there?”
For some people out there, maybe they reach a certain point there and that's great. I do feel sometimes, “Why settle when there are other things that you can embark on a journey and embrace?” You're retiring to something new. That's excellent. I don't want to think of my life in phases of employment, the jobs I had, or the settings I was in. It's more so I feel that there's always continual growth.
There are certain things that you are going to outgrow. There are certain skills and things that I used to do. It's not saying that I'm above them by any means but they don't provide value to me anymore. There are new goals in mind that I need to focus on and maybe publishing a book. That's going to take time. I'm going to have to do maybe a page a night. It may take 270 days to do it. If I stick to it, that one page a day can get done.
Lastly, my father talked about vision. For leadership, the Bible is clear to say, “Without vision, people perish.” I can remember hearing vision as a young girl. I'm looking at these guys. They were born with it. They're on a different level. Their brains are wired differently and my dad was always like, “Vision is simply seeing what needs to be done and then doing it.” It had this future aspect but also very pragmatic tangible tactical aspects. Can you share with us what vision looks like for you and how you continue to hone and refine your vision?
It's not just the military. This translates to business as well. There's this concept of shared vision. “It's not just my vision. I want people that are working with me to understand that, ‘Though this is what I see, I'd also like to get that feedback from what other people's perceived problems with.’” This goes back a little bit with Major General Gronski. We were together overseas in Al-Ramadi for eighteen months of deployment. He had a very large problem set. This is how the military hierarchy is. It's the commander's intent.
It is the trickle-down effect of, “This is what the overall goal needs to accomplish.” In this large landscape, there are different departments, divisions, sectors, and people. Teams are handling different tasks in this large scope. If we all understand the higher intent and vision, and we still do our part that will help enable other coworkers, teams, and departments to also do their job supporting one another, and if we all stay on a task, we are able to achieve that final goal by doing our small little pieces.
When you're a leader, there's not necessarily a book of all the best possible solutions you could do. Every situation is unique. You have to analyze and understand what resources and constraints you have. Here’s one that I'd like to share. I was a company commander at the time and this is one of my favorite stories. In the National Guard, for those who aren't familiar with that, that's not their primary job. They are reservists working on a very part-time basis but they raise their right hand to serve in this country.
Every situation is unique. You have to analyze and understand what resources you have and what constraints you have.
They'll go wherever they need to go and do various types of missions, whether it's state, federal, overseas, or in the state, snow storms, flooding, or even types of civil disturbances or things like that. We often sometimes get called up to do some civil disturbance situations. Whenever you get these calls coming up where a large event is happening, maybe one of the conventions, or a large debate is going to happen somewhere, we at least know what's coming. Every time these come around, we have new people in our formation. People who used to be so knowledgeable and experienced are gone.
We have a younger crew or maybe some new generation who has never even done some of these things before. It's part of our vision to ensure that they're also trained in the best possible way. “Who are people in my company, formation, or team that can help enable and pass on some of this great knowledge?” Not every director or supervisor is an expert or has expertise in certain fields out there.
The one thing that I realized quickly is a large thing that we had to attend and do the presidential inauguration many years ago. We had to go down to DC and get deputized. We had to help the Secret Service and other people, keeping the safety of the public, the parade, and all the motorcades that were going through but also keeping people off the streets and making sure people were not interfering in any way. It was a very important type of mission.
One thing that we did as a shared vision was we understand the problem. We understand that there are numerous ways we can go about this. We were a very young crew here. I pulled together some of our senior enlisted sergeants, supervisors, or whatever you may call them in the civilian world. Some of them had a lot of this experience and we realize a lot of them had full-time positions. They were police or corrections officers. They had ties to other departments.
We wanted to leverage the resources in our community that have a lot of this expertise and together, we got a large exercise that we made up all by ourselves to then build towards before the big show where we had eleven departments to different police departments. We had state police, emergency services of all types, ambulances, dispatches, you name it. We put on a large-scale mock scenario training for 72 hours of various real-life scenarios. We’re writing a real script of things that could happen and making training as real as possible to meet the intent of the vision.
We made the training a lot harder than it was going to be at the inauguration. It was very stressful and intense. “If a bad scenario happened, this is how you would need to react to it.” It was very good with lots of stopping, pausing, and reflecting. “Let's talk about what happened. How can we improve that?” Also, having those after-action reviews to build forward. With vision, it's important to communicate the shared concept. Getting what people want to see, “How do they view success? How do I have you success? How should we marry the two?”
Shared Vision: With vision, it's important to communicate the shared concept.
Also, creating training that will ensure that people can meet not only the expectations of that's success and get them ready. Sometimes, with targets, time, and budget, there are a lot of restrictions. Things are always coming at a fast pace and it's hard to get training involved. It's proper. Some people will hand wave it. That's usually going to set up for a disaster, getting people to buy in early and then also having them be part of the training. I didn't create the entire training. I leveraged the resources I had and together with their hand in the pot, they wanted to own it.
They wanted to do it. They were happy with the product. That is a sense of belonging that we as a team can agree that we did a good thing. It got recognized which was not what we were looking for but the Army took notice. A lot of people got a good pat on the back here and there. I fortunately even got to go into the Pentagon. I got to receive a reward from former Chief of Staff General Mark Milley for putting on that large-scale exercise. Sharing that story, this is something that would be worked out for us. I hope that other people do the same. That was a very cool thing.
You talked about vision, the front end, and the back end. First of all, you said it was shared. I would tell people in leadership, “You all have to be viewing the goals through the same lens. If you have 100 different people, we all have our individual goals and motivations. We collectively all have to be tied to a shared vision.” I love that. Vision has to be shared and that combats that loneliness. I love that at the end you talked about an AAR or After Action Report for our readers.
One of the greatest things about the military was whenever we did anything, good, better, or ugly, we always did what we call a hot wash or an After Action Report. We sit there. We'd be very brutally honest with ourselves, “What do we own? What do we mess up?” I get with civilian corporations that I'm like, “We messed up but we're on to something else. Nothing changes until you identify the behavior and implement something.”
That’s what I love about it. The military was very honest with themselves, maybe not in the political realms but at the soldier level, we're very much about calling each other out. I love that provision. You're going to constantly be like, “We are all in. We can't take these 50 different mountains. Now that we've tried this vision, let's reevaluate. What do we keep doing? What do we stop doing? What are we doing that's already good?”
I love that because vision is a fluid thing. Your values are immutable but everything else is open for negotiation like contingency planning and the fog and friction war. I love that you talked about vision from a forward aspect but then you got to sit and evaluate it. I don't care if it was your vision. You have to look and see if that baby is ugly. What are you going to do to evaluate that?
Be honest about it. You love the project or a passion. If it didn't work, it didn't work. That's okay. What's the next step?
Root cause analysis and corrective actions. Otherwise, you're flying all over the place. It always baffles me. For readers, it’s ownership. I always say, “What can we own? What's going to happen differently the next time?” A lot of people are like, “It's out of our control.” I'm like, “There's always something. It's like saying you don't sin.”
When I was getting some of my clearances, they were like, “What if you broke the law?” I'm like, “I'm a law abider.” He's like, “You never went over the speed limit or rolled through a stop sign?” I’m like, “You're talking about those laws?” We can all own something in our lives that we're not at the bar of excellence that we claim that we are. I love that you talked about how values are shared. The outcome is all shared.
A part of it, together people feel a sense of belonging and responsibility to it as well. It's not just my vision anymore.
Shared Vision: When building a vision together, people feel a sense of belonging in responsibility to it as well.
Vision is multiple. Otherwise, it's your viewpoint. It's your vision when you get the team. If two or more are gathered, then it starts getting that synergistic thing. Thank you so much. We talked about loneliness, weariness, abandonment, and vision. Those are some wonderful examples, insights, and inspiration you gave us, as well as information. Is there anything else you'd like to share with us from a leadership perspective on why we have our readers here?
We hit so many good points. I feel that there are three skills when it comes to leadership that we all know. We have administrative, interpersonal, and conceptual skills. Out of those three buckets, it's important to self-analyze, where is the strongest skillset that you have out of those three? More than likely, there's probably one that is going to be where you feel the most comfortable. With administrative, that's the stuff where you're able to manage people and resources and show some technical competence and stuff because you've been on the job. You are getting the work done.
There's the inner personal side where I feel that some people are more emotionally intelligent. You're able to show empathy. You can manage people but anyone can do that because of your position and subordinates but how empathetic are you? How can you relate to what a person is experiencing on their job and their life? We all have different life experiences and also being able to manage conflict. That's also another part of the interpersonal and then the conceptual part. We were talking about creating visions, strategic planning, and problem-solving.
Some people may be more conceptual leaders. They're the ones who can make a vision pop. People get in on the strategy and plan it together, solving problems, framing the problem, and thinking of the best solution but then it goes into the administrative and interpersonal. Can you ensure that it is communicated properly or the resources are being managed properly or supporting the people to do the jobs and delegate?
I feel that is a revolving wheel in every phase of our life. There may be a certain part where we're better at one or the other. I feel that some jobs sometimes take us away from our people because there are certain responsibilities. We get siloed and there are also certain other things that we have projects we have to deal with. The higher you go up, the lonelier at the top. I feel that in my current phase of life, I'm with the team. I love that I can talk and relate.
It's great to go to work. It's good to have friends. It's good to see that when they have a problem, they're able to talk to me about it. When we're in that space sometimes, I'm not able to see conceptually some of the bigger picture because I'm more focused on the team right here in front of me where we're working together on certain goals but there are other things out there that I'll have to break away for a hot second, go to some of these meetings, and realize that there are certain things in the long-term calendar that we need to address. That's the balancing act.
As a leader, it's a self-assessment. Out of the administrative conceptual interpersonal, where do you feel is your best and weakest? If it's a weakest, does that require you to maybe do a sink, meet up, have a meeting, have a brainstorm session, or whatever it may be to fix one of those skills? Self-assessment and data are going to be your friend. That is the only way that we can truly reflect on feedback. Take it with a grain of salt and do not get upset by hearing that. Be honest with yourself, “Where are weak?” That's always the continual growth model for me.
Shared Vision: Self-assessment is your friend.
You talked about self-awareness. Where do you lead best? You alluded to it. We all have some of us who are more task, IQ, and EQ-focused. I even know when I was in high-tech fields before, my DISC was radically different than what it is now since I've been many years in coaching and teaching. I also think it's important to know where you serve best. I've been in Fortune 100 and the military. I'm in every bureaucracy known to mankind. I finally realized that I don't like bureaucracies. I'm a wild little Maverick. I had to look at myself and say, “Although I can climb the ladder, do I want to be in the big pond or am I most at home at this?”
I had to walk away from things and say, “I could have kept doing this.” In the end, as long as whatever you put your hand to and you do with all your might, you're going to be an asset or blessing anywhere but for me, I had to look at myself and say, “Do I want to get better or bigger?” “I want to get bigger.” “You got to make more money and be at the sea level.” I finally look at myself and go, “I don't want this. This is not one for me. Can I do it? Absolutely.”
It's important that you talk about self-awareness. I coached a lot of people through life transitions where they are going from working for somebody else to doing their thing. You get that calling and you can't stop thinking about it but it's a lot of different things. As you are going through yours, you have to be true to yourself.
Self-awareness is key. I love how you said, “Bigger versus better.” I'm going to use that.
Some people want to be bigger. I'm like, “That’s cool.” I want to get better in my little microcosm and niche. We learned that from the PhD. There's one thing in life like little nuggets of knowledge that I know better than anybody else. I like that. Somebody also builds on that but rather than be pontificating about everything, that's not what we're called to do. We have ChatGPT. You don’t need to do that. How can people get a hold of you? What’s the best way to connect with you?
I'm starting this journey myself. I’m putting myself out there more. I finished my degree so I'm working on different projects and stuff. LinkedIn is the best way to find me. The other thing is the gamification thing. I didn't get to talk too much about it briefly. For the younger crowd out there, a lot of kids are watching Twitch and stuff, which is fun. It's an on-stream service where a lot of people are playing games, doing reaction videos to certain things, watching a movie, and stuff like that.
It's a weird realm but one thing that I realized that I loved was spending time with my kids and doing things with them. I feel that with current technology, growing up, there are a few pictures of me and stuff but there are thousands of pictures of kids. I have my phone all the time capturing them. I want to show them the stuff and have these memories later on in life. It’s very cool in the video. There's a lot of great things.
With Twitch, I started doing a thing where I'm playing with my sons every so often which is great. It's awesome to see them first off be very good playing random video games together like Mario Kart and silly things like that. It's a good thing that I'm also leveraging as well. It's a good thing too. I've started doing this Twitch channel thing. I'm not too dedicated to it but if the readers out there have kids and stuff like that, they look for kid’s safe channels to watch. It's family-oriented stuff. It's a father and son hanging out, playing, engaging, and doing something cool.
It's an infant stage but I've noticed as I'm teaching, as a professor and stuff, I'm interacting with the younger students out there in their twenties and they're telling me about all these things and how a lot of them grew up watching YouTube more than anything. They didn't watch Nickelodeon, Disney, or something like that. They're watching other videos on TikTok and all that stuff. There are a lot of channels out there that are very safe, family-oriented, and things like that. That's a little passion project on the side. If you're on Twitch at all or if anybody out there even viewed that, come check out our channel.
I saw your Twitch link that came through. I was checking it out. That's very cool. You nailed it. I can't believe it's your first. You did tremendously. There is so much wonderful wisdom. I want to thank you for being a part of this, Lee.
Thank you so much for having me on. This is a great time.
You're welcome. To our tremendous readers out there, where would we be without you? If you like what you read, please hit the like and subscribe button. If you do us the honor of a review, it means everything. It helps other people who are looking for, “How can I be a tremendous leader find us?” We would be so thankful for that.
Please reach out to Lee. Make sure you connect with him. The goal is the people you meet in the book you read. You make sure you get a hold of Lee. I know you are out there paying the price of leadership. We're right there with you. Keep on paying the price of leadership. Have a tremendous rest of the day. Bye.
Important Links
Dr. Lee Hardin – LinkedIn
Major General John Gronski – Past Episode
Twitch – Sidechopper
About Lee Hardin
Lee Hardin holds a Ph.D. in Educational Psychology from Temple, and a Master's in Instructional Technology from Bloomsburg. He is currently an active duty army officer with 23 years of service in the PA Army National Guard and is an Iraq Veteran (2005-2006 Ar Ramadi, Iraq).
Lee is also an Adjunct Professor in the College of Education & Human Development at Temple. Research Interests in Executive Function/Self-Regulation, Gamification & Instructional Design. He is also the father of three boys and has been happily married for 11 years.