Episode 151 - Cynthia Zhai - Leaders On Leadership
Leadership comes with many struggles but what matters is how we deal with them. Joining Dr. Tracey Jones today is Cynthia Zhai, Certified Speaking Professional, TEDx speaker, voice coach, and trainer at Full Voice Consulting. Cynthia shares valuable insights for leaders on overcoming the hard times within themselves and with their team. You don’t have to carry all the burden and keep the frustrations to yourself. At the same time, there is a right way to communicate these things. Listen in and get enlightened by her wisdom as they tackle loneliness in leadership, maintaining your center, and practicing assertiveness.
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Cynthia Zhai - Leaders On Leadership
In this episode, I'm excited because my guest is Cynthia Zhai. She is a voice coach. She's a professional speaker. She has the CSP abbreviation after her name. It's a credential. She's a bestselling author and also a TEDx speaker. I had the pleasure of watching her TEDx speech. She has helped professionals from over 46 countries across 6 continents to speak with a powerful voice. Cynthia has been a professional speaker and coach for years and her engagement spans 5 continents and 18 countries. Cynthia, thank you so much for being on the show.
Thank you, Tracey. I feel very honored to be on the show.
Cynthia, we connected on LinkedIn through a fellow friend, Bob Brumm, who I have interviewed on the show. Could you share how you became aware of all things tremendous?
In my early days of college, that was where it led me to Charlie "Tremendous" Jones’s quote. Ever since then, I was not only developing my leadership skills but also helping other people develop that.
The quote that Cynthia is referring to is, "You will be the same person five years from now that you are today except for two things, the people you meet and the books you read.” I love that you not only did that for yourself but then you helped others encourage that. I'm amazed. I had a mother of ten order off our website. She remarked the same thing that in her early twenties, she heard that quote. She had issues reading but that impacted her and she went on. She's a prolific reader and so are all ten of her children. It's phenomenal the whole transformation power of books.
Also, the quote changed my life. At the time when I heard the quote, as a college student like many others, I was feeling depressed and I didn't know what to do. That was initially a quote shared by my dad in the Chinese language. Later on, I found out the English quote, which had not only guided me throughout my only college days but my career days. I always share that with my clients and friends.
“Always speak the truth but soften your words.”
That was the spark that ignited this. Isn't that interesting how we can be in such a bad spot but then you hear something and you are ready to take, infuse and then apply it because it doesn't do any good if you don't read great books and meet great people? It's a sweet little quote. You were at that point where you needed a solution and you acted upon it. That's fascinating. Let's get down to talking about leadership. Thank you. That so encourages me. I know it will inspire and bless our leaders because I know they all love that quote too and share that repeatedly.
One of the things that my father talks about in a speech that he gave many decades ago called The Price of Leadership is that if you are going to be a true leader, there's going to be a price that you have to pay. He outlines four different things that are going to happen to you and you are going to encounter. The first of those is loneliness. We have all heard the phrase, “It's lonely at the top. Heavy is the head that wears the crown.” Can you unpack what loneliness might look like for the leader and perhaps when you might have been in a season of loneliness?
These are also some of the concerns that my clients were sharing. They said, “Now, I am in this leadership role that I don't want to get too close with my staff members. There are also times that there is the so-called bad news that I don't want to share with them.” In that way, it does create a lot of loneliness, especially when you have to face all this bad news and challenges on your own. It's almost inevitable that you will feel lonely at the top.
What do you recommend for some of the people that you are working with? As you said, it is inevitable. I always tell people and they are like, “I have never felt that.” I'm like, “You haven't set the proper boundaries because it is a part of leadership.”
I would recommend two things. One is that there are times when we do need to be authentic. It doesn't mean that we don't share the bad news. We do share the bad news but there's a quote, “Always speak the truth but soften your words.” Authentic leadership is also something that many people are after nowadays. Authentic leadership does mean that there are times when you do need to share the so-called bad news and what is the frustration you are going through so that people can understand you more and work with you. It's to be more authentic and honest.
Voice Coach: Develop the quality or the state of equanimity. Whatever storms are happening outside of you, you need to develop that inner solidness, that inner centeredness that will not be affected.
The second thing is if you feel that there are things that you cannot share with your staff members, there is a way that you will want to join people who are outside of your company. There are many executive networks. You can join them so that you can share your common frustrations. We cannot suppress these things in ourselves and our bodies because one day, it will become some disease. It cannot be bottled up all in your body. It needs a channel. Have like-minded people to share with and that will be a very good way.
You get that wise counsel too and you are so right that stress kills. Your body can catch a disease of the mind and that's one of the main things that are causes of death. That's outstanding advice. We talked about loneliness. Along with loneliness is weariness because if you are at the top and you have all these responsibilities, even if it's not physical, it's a lot because if you don't perform and not everybody performs, you may not be in business longer. You've got shareholders and all these people looking at you to see if you are able to deliver. How do you combat weariness? What should our leaders do if they are perhaps feeling the effects of weariness?
The philosophy that is in the way we speak and the voice as well is what I recommend my clients to develop the quality or the state of equanimity. Equanimity is that whatever storms are happening outside of you, you need to develop that inner solidness and centeredness that will not be affected by whatever is happening.
You know that tornadoes, typhoons or all these natural disasters can take out an entire vintage or town but in the center of a tornado, there is peacefulness and stillness. It’s because of that stillness, it has this massive power and that's something that leaders need to develop because when we are centered and have that stillness, then we can act with vision, with the right strategy, and cope with whatever is thrown at us.
That's so amazing that you talked about the eye of the storm because I had never thought about it like that but I also thought as far as shelters, they always tell you, “Go to the center of the building where there are no windows.” It's almost like you are going to the center of yourself where you are at the deepest of your own core and the most protected. Stay away from the stuff you can stay away and seek shelter. I will never forget that one because I speak a lot about crisis leadership. I am going to use that.
There's loneliness and weariness. The next thing he talked about was abandonment. Typically, abandonment gets a negative connotation like fear of abandonment. When my father spoke of it, he used to tell me, “Tracey, I do more in a day to contribute to my failure than my success.” I’m like, “What?” He is like, “It’s because I tend to think about what I like and want to think about in favor of what I ought and need to think about.” He was always very intentional about this and hyperfocused that if we cut out and abandon the things that aren't going to move us forward, as a leader, you are going to have to keep doing that. Can you explain abandonment? How do you stay focused and on point?
You need to share the frustration you’re going through so that people can understand you and work with you.
First of all, you need to be clear about what is it. It’s not what you need to do. As your father said, the wise words. When I started my business and even now, the word that I hear the most is, “Cynthia, you are very focused. Since day one, you have been focusing on one thing and one thing only.” That's something that I love to do. It's the same for the leaders. The reason that you are in this leadership role is there must be something in being a leader that draws you. You need to focus on that.
For example, some of my clients love making strategic decisions. They love to see things from a bigger point of view. Focus on what you love. The second thing is don't get distracted by all these other things that might be shining or more than. There may be something new that comes out. Know what you love, what you want to do and at the same time, don't get distracted by all those things so you still stay on track.
It's tough now. There are so many good books or podcasts. You are like, “I never thought about that.” As you said, you have to get dialed in. When I coach people, this is the thing that we struggle with the most. There are so many things we are good at that we could do. As my father always taught me, “There's that one thing that you are put here to do better than anybody else. The joy is discovering that and staying on point, so you don't start drifting.”
How do you recommend the people that you coach to get clarity on identifying that? This is something that a lot of people even leaders struggle with. You heard the age demographic and who I work with. They are still like, “What do I want to do with my life?” They are still dialing it in. What do you recommend for them to help them find that?
One is that we can use the method of ruling out. A lot of my clients know what they don't want but they do not know where they want. I said, “We rule out what you don't want first and we look at the opposite.” That's one way. The second thing is very important. In a post I shared, I mentioned that struggles are blessings in disguise. The reason I'm doing my work is because of the struggle that I went through. As your dad was saying that we are put on this planet for that one thing that only we can do.
How do we know that thing? It's from our struggles because, with the struggles that we are going through, no one would experience the exact struggle that we have experienced. If you are learning the lesson from the struggles, you will see why you are going through the struggle. In my early career, I was not heard and assertive. I went on a journey to be more assertive, to be heard and now I teach people how to be heard. My struggle became my calling. It was a blessing. Look at your struggles.
Voice Coach: A lot of people know what they don’t want but not what they do want. Rule out what you don’t want first and then we can look at the opposite.
My work for 2022 was speaking more with my authentic voice. People are like, “Have you had trouble with that?” I’m like, “Yes.” It's being your most authentic version of a leader and speaking the truth but softening your words. Do you find that people sleep better and get such a sense of release? I don't mean that it doesn't matter how it's received but you feel so much truer to yourself.
I was even having some heart issues like pain and I'm like, “I can tell what's going on. I'm not being authentic in my voice when I share with people.” The more I dialed that in, I don't have sleep problems anymore and it's not fine. You deal with it but I am being true and speaking what needs to be said. Have you found that with your clients?
Yes. It's a sense of liberation.
It can combat weariness because I was finding that I was getting very tired emotionally and spiritually, not physically because there was this constant tension. I was holding back and not saying what needed to be said. It was draining me.
I was sharing that earlier on in my career. I was not assertive. Whatever I felt, I didn't say it. For example, someone did something that upset me but I didn't say anything. I will carry that with me for as long as it can go and then I will stay away from that person. There are only so many friends you have and if you stay away from every one of them, at the end of the day, you are lonely.
What I have learned was when someone says something that upsets me, I would tell that person, “What you said made me feel sad.” The response that I’ve got was, “I'm sorry. I didn't know.” I then knew they didn't mean it at all. It was me who was overthinking. Once I said it, I never resent that person anymore so we can keep this relationship. I didn’t need to become lonely eventually.
There must be something about being leader that draws you. You need to focus on that.
I love that because you allow them to explain themselves rather than jumping to conclusions like you know their motives because we all say some brusque or pretty stupid things. I love that you approached it that way. Would you recommend being able to use that method in the workforce too if a coworker, a colleague or a boss says something? Do you approach the same thing and say it the same way?
The example I was giving was with a coworker when I was working for a corporate in the past.
If they go, “Yes, so what?” versus, “I'm sorry,” then you know this is not somebody you need to worry about anymore. That's abandonment. The last thing he talked about was the vision. A lot of people have different aspects of vision. Some people are like, “I'm not a visionary. I'm a doer.” My dad always said that he was pragmatic. He had these big picture ideas but it was always very much every day, every person could work this out.
He used to tell me, “Tracey, vision is nothing more than seeing what needs to be done so there's that future aspect but then doing it because otherwise, it's just talk.” Can you share with me what your idea of vision is? How do you continue once you’ve got clarity on what you wanted to do in this experience of where you weren't assertive? How you continue to hone your vision because you have been doing this for quite a long time?
Vision, to me, is also a big picture. It's not only a big picture but also a big picture down the road. In a few years, what can we do? What will happen? At the same time, I like that we are drilling down this big vision into something actionable. People say, “I want to hone my body. I want to get fit,” but you cannot just think about it. You want to do the very first thing. The first thing is not, “Tonight, I'm going to go jogging for twenty minutes,” especially if you haven't been jogging for twenty years. The first thing might be, “Now, I'm going to go down and jog for five minutes.”
Especially with leaders, if there's no vision, you are not a leader. You do need a vision but at the same time, break that vision down into small actionable steps like assertiveness. The small thing I did was how I was ending my sentences. When I was not assertive, I realized I was saying, “I want to do this.” It sounds like a question. That was the small actionable step I was taking which is, “I want to do this.” Instead of making it sound like a question, I'm making it sound like a statement. That one small change made me sound more assertive. That was one of those small steps.
Voice Coach: We need to not only upscale ourselves but also elevate ourselves in terms of not only skills but also mentally, emotionally.
I love that you talked about breaking it down to small steps or chunking as I call it but you hit on something. Leaders create something out of nothing. Something that wasn't there, they create. Managers are the ones that execute making things work. It's important as a leader. You can't just be showing up and watching things run. You have to be this blue-sky person whereas the flip side of the coin is the blueprint people. Both are very different skillsets.
I love that you brought that up because as a leader, I had to look at this and go, "Am I leading? I'm leading myself but am I engaging in leadership?" which is a whole different realm. I love that you touched on that important nuance. We have talked about loneliness, weariness, abandonment, and vision. Can you share anything else that you would like? We have an open floor. I'm fascinated with working with people. What is the demographic of most of the people that you work with? Is it male, female, young or old? What is it?
Most of my clients are in the C-Suites so they are the senior executives in the companies. The loneliness problems and all these problems that we are talking about, they do experience and share. In my early career, men will account for about 60% to 65% of my clients. Now, it's about 50% male and 50% female. One of the main reasons is because more and more women are going up and showing up in the C-Suites as well, which is a good thing. In terms of age for my clients, the average age is about 45 and above. I don't have younger ones in their 30s. I also had old ones. I always mention him. My oldest client, when he was working with me, he was 82. In 2022, he's 90.
I've got authors in their 80s. For our readers out there, as you go through each stage, evolve as a leader and get more clarity in your vision or perhaps you have had changes. You are done with this career or the next one, I can't tell you how important it is to continue to hone your leadership voice. When I came to 2022, I'm like, “This is the voice I'm using.” It isn't that I haven't already been back here for years running the company.
It's that now is the time for the next phase. I'm rolling out something different and I have to find that voice. How do people get in touch with you because I can't encourage our leaders enough to consider continuing to craft their leadership voice? You want to do it up here with tremendous books and update your circle with tremendous people but that voice is such an important part of sending out and communicating all the tremendous things that are coming into you.
The best way is to connect with me on LinkedIn.
Instead of making it sound like a question, make it sound like a statement. That one small change makes you sound more assertive.
That's where we met.
That's one. The second source is my website. My website is PowerfulExecutiveVoice.com.
Cynthia, you gave me quite a bit of wonderful things to think about. Are there any last thoughts or parting words from our guest?
Everything we do for the leaders is not just learning about the skills and techniques. The most important thing over the years that I have realized is that we need to not only upscale ourselves but also elevate ourselves as a leader, in terms of not only the skills but also mentally and emotionally. Once we are able to elevate ourselves to the next level, you will see things start to flow. Even though I haven't been the CEO, I have led nonprofit organizations and my small team. That's what I felt. Whenever I elevated myself to the next level, I started to feel that things are flowing. That's what I would recommend to our leaders.
For our readers out there, this was Cynthia Zhai. We have the connections that you can reach out to her. Cynthia, thank you so much for everything you shared with us, for your wisdom, and for helping make a difference in other people's lives so they can go out and be the leaders that they and the world need. To our tremendous readers out there, if you like what you read, be sure and hit the subscribe button and leave us the honor of a review or a comment.
We answer all those comments personally. Please share this with a friend as well. Come on over to TremendousLeadership.com and check out all the tremendous books, resources, DVDs and CDs. We will introduce you to a world of tremendous people to help you continue your upward trajectory. Thanks so much for being a part of our tremendous tribe. Have a tremendous rest of your day.
Important Links:
TEDx speech - The Transformative Power of Your Voice
Bob Brumm – Past Episode
LinkedIn - Cynthia Zhai
About Cynthia Zhai
Cynthia Zhai is a Voice Coach, Professional Speaker (CSP), and Best-Selling Author. She’s also a TEDx speaker. She has helped professionals from 46 countries across 6 continents to speak with a powerful voice. Cynthia has been a professional speaker and coach for the past 19 years and her engagement spans 5 continents in 18 countries.