Leadership is often seen as a rapid journey towards perfection. However, the most effective and influential leaders know that being present and embracing their entire selves – including their flaws – is the way to go. In this episode, Dr. Tracey Jones chats with Lisa Michener, a chief communications and marketing officer for more than a decade. Lisa talks about embracing moments of loneliness as growth opportunities and why having downtime should never be seen as a sign of weakness. She also shares the role of her mother in shaping her personal vision, the importance of humility in leadership, and the power of saying no in building a more fulfilled version of yourself.
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Lisa Michener - Leaders on Leadership
I have an incredibly special guest. Her name is Lisa Michener. Welcome. I want to tell you a little bit about this fabulous one you’re about to read. She is the Chief Communications and Marketing Officer at a large financial planning firm and has been there for many years. Lisa is a lover of all things food, an avid horror movie fan, and a stand-up comedy enthusiast. She loves to travel. She adores her four rescue kitties at home, and you cannot pry her off the dance floor if you try. I love it. I didn’t know about you. That’s awesome. We must connect in person. She also loves spending time with family and friends, which is their most valued venture of all these. She tries to embody an attitude of gratitude every single day. Lisa, thank you for the honor of getting to share with my readers.
Thank you so much for having me. The honor is mine.
You’re welcome. I like to tell people how we connected because, as my father said, you’re going to be the same person five years from now except for two things, the people you meet and the books you read. Lisa and I connected at the beginning of July 2023. I’m on the American College of Financial Services, their veteran board. I’m also an adjunct professor for their CLF or Chartered Leadership Fellow program. Lisa signed up to take the CLF because she wanted to hone her leadership chops. I talked to her about the show and she graciously agreed to come on. I couldn’t be more excited.
I am excited for this. At first, when you mentioned it I thought, “Maybe I want to do that. I wonder if she was serious and wanted a guest from our class.” I asked and here I am. I love it.
Readers, Lisa said yes. That’s one of the things that leaders do. You’re going to get a lot of opportunities out there. I’ve had great people like teachers, and people say, “I don’t know if I have anything to offer,” and I’m like, “You have so much to offer.” I’m excited to know your perspective because we have a lot of different people on here. My father loved the industry that you were in. He retired from it. My husband is retired from it. The financial planning industry is fabulous because it enables people to live out and play for their dreams.
My dad talked about the price of leadership. Leadership and motivation are the two things he spoke about the most, and he has a book in one of our little Life-Changing Classics’ called The Price of Leadership. In it, he talked about four things that every person who is truly a leader, not just a leader in name only, is going to have to pay. The first of those is loneliness. That’s not a thing we like to hear. It’s lonely at the top or heavy is the head that wears the crown. Can you share a time in your life where you perhaps went through a season of loneliness, what you did about it, and some words of counsel that you might give to our readers?
It’s funny how timing in the universe and everything aligns sometimes. The past years have probably been the most I have spent alone in this sense of just me and kids in that capacity, transcending that from a personal standpoint to a business standpoint, and a lot of things feedback to relational when you are in a business that is very fast-paced and things can go quick.
From a loneliness perspective, it can be both. It can be positive self-imposed loneliness to where you’re forced to be alone with these thoughts, visions, exciting ideas, and things like that. It’s not always from a negative standpoint. We hear the word loneliness and have this negative connotation to where it’s not okay to be by yourself sometimes and it’s not okay to explore things that you enjoy things, relax, and find beauty with.
From a personal standpoint, I’ve had a lot of loneliness but from a positive perspective that was forced upon me. I didn’t choose to walk into it first, and it’s been one of the greatest blessings. From a business standpoint, it is also getting to explore a little bit more in this leadership category and a little bit more of the possibilities because, a lot of times, we feel that we are in this box where we don’t have anywhere to go once we either level up in a position or do what we can. That’s not always true in many positions.
I know a lot of places where there isn’t a lot of room for growth or there’s lateral movement and things, but from an internal perspective, I feel like loneliness at times can push us to that next level. Even speaking about this opportunity, on this show with you, I didn’t know if I could do it or I couldn’t do it. Until you push yourself a little bit out of those boxes and of what you can and can’t do, that’s where that growth, beauty, and magic start to happen.
Loneliness can push you to the next level. It brings you out a bit of your box and shows you what you can and cannot do. That’s where the magic of growth happens.
I feel like loneliness is given a bad rep in some ways. In reading those four headlines, that’s what I thought in your father’s book before I delved into it. I thought, “These are some negative items,” until I stopped and thought about it. I was like, “I am learning so much from personal loneliness in such a positive way that I don’t think that that’s talked about enough. I don’t think it’s setting up on how much we have within us.”
There are many beautiful wonderful people around us and nobody ever takes their place, whether it’s friends, family, or people you meet anywhere, but from the standpoint of loneliness and getting to be alone with yourself is so much. There is so much beauty in that as well, growth, and translating that into your business and your every day because a lot of it isn’t based on your ideas for black-and-white metrics and things like that. It’s also the people around you, how you come better, and looking for betterment and growth. That is how people are going to receive you and it goes from there.
Readers, if you’re in a season of loneliness, Lisa said it is so beautiful, “If you’re lonely, you’re doing something wrong.” Maybe you’re going to be one of those one in a million people who always has the right people around you your whole life, “Mary is the right person and has perfect kids and bosses,” then there’s the rest of us. We’ve talked about that. What are you going to have to do?
I have a friend going through a personal life. She’s like, “I don’t know how I’ll handle being alone.” I’m like, “Having been alone for many years, it is a time of beauty, where you can get to know yourself.” You’re in CLF and you’re talking with other leaders. We unpacked some pretty heavy things. There’s always somebody else going through it to help let you know you’re not alone. As you said, it’s the chance you get to work on yourself and say, “With all that noise going on, otherwise, it’s such busyness.” That’s not the good side effect of what we need to get to our purest voice.
A lot of times, we don’t choose to walk ourselves into that season of our life. You believe in God, whether it’s the universe or whatever. As I have needed a couple of times in the past couple of years, you need to pick up, shake off, turn around, spin around, and drop back down a little bit peace and a little bit of a bumpy landing to start to unravel those internal thoughts that can lead to such.
In saying yes to this show, loneliness also means you were the one who stood out and said yes. Technically, you’re lonely because, of all the people that got asked, and I asked a lot of different people, loneliness is sometimes you may be the only one that says, “I’ll do it. I’ll volunteer to do it.” It’s something about a mass to stick together. I call it Mount Majority. Let’s say Mount Majority, everything is good here, but you step out and you may be the only one. You may be alone, but that’s different than negative loneliness because somebody’s got to step up and say yes, and you did.
Thank you for asking me. That’s one of the things your dad touched on saying in the committee. He referred to it as the committee. I like everything to be a double-edged sword. In my life, I always say, “Choose your heart. There are pros and cons to everything in that nature.” You also sometimes need to step out of that. Step back into it in a positive manner. It is a way of leadership and teaching people how you want to be treated from a personal. You’re setting the top for yourself and those around you.
Being Present: If you want people around you to commit, you need to step out and back into leadership in a positive manner. Teach people how you want to be treated from a personal level.
You said it. It’s a season. You may step into it. The goal is a leader is if you’re going through it, you shouldn’t be there for long unless you have a hard lesson. As I always say, “God let you there because it’s a purity problem or an immaturity problem.” You’re sharp as an iron. If you go through a season of it, it will be for a time to you get that clarity, brush off, look in the mirror, and say, “This is what I want,” but then you come out of it.
All these things he talks about are not forever. It’s the valley. The valley means that, eventually, there’s a bottom and then you start eventually coming back up again. I like that you said to step in and out of it because you’re going to have it throughout your whole life. As you get older, you get a lot more depth at it. You honestly look forward to it because you know this is going to be a time of refinement and reflection, and it’s a good thing.
That is powerful because it’s true. The universe puts quite a bit on you leading you to these points and these things to work through, but choose a little bit of challenge and challenge yourself within. It is like choosing to walk through the eye of the storm and to grow through it as opposed to damaging these windstorms and tumbleweed, circling back to it later, taking that head on, and embracing that growth as it comes. Your skin gets a little thicker.
Being Present: Choose to walk through the eye of the storm to grow through it. Taking the challenges head-on will make your skin a little thicker.
Charles says that you get a thick skin and a soft heart rather than a thin skin and a hard heart. That’s what loneliness is. Loneliness can be your friend. It can teach you a lot because bad things happen to good people, and good things happen to bad people. The sooner you can go, “It is what it is. I’m going to embrace it,” something positive is going to come out in us. We defined that season of loneliness to be probably one of the greatest times of growth we’ve ever had.
That’s the season I’m in. That’s why I am embracing these new challenges, leadership options, and things like that. Thank you.
When I went back for PhD many years ago, I was burned out and done with everything and feeling untremendous. I thought, “I’m going to go back and go to school.” Sometimes if you’re in a season of loneliness, that’s the best time to do it because you’re tired. I was burnt out on doing stuff. My health, relationships, and finances were in tatters. I thought, “I’m going to go study.” I got my mind in a space of growth, “Everything else I touched was turning to crap. Let’s at least stay.” If you’re in a season of loneliness, learning can pull you out of it because as I was recharging my mind, all of a sudden, my emotions and my behaviors started aligning. That’s what pulled out in all areas of my life. I went through a four-year evolution process. It was because of the learning process that I started.
I try to envision seeing a lot of myself from you and pulling from your opportunity, growth, and things like that of, “Why not me be able to do this now? Why not me from a business standpoint? Why not me from a personal standpoint?” A lot of us have this self-imposed negative self-talk. That’s where we stay stagnant. That’s why we don’t allow ourselves and everybody around us. Nobody has as many negative things to say as we think. That’s an internal voice. We think that everybody’s like, “She can’t do it. Why are you even doing it?” It’s ourselves and helping people to help us.
We talked about loneliness. That was a beautiful discussion. Thank you so much for that. You talked about weariness. You’re juggling a lot. I’m juggling a lot. We’re managing all the different aspects of our life. You have family, friends, a career, and rescue kitties. We have our spiritual life, personal life, and financial life. How do you stay in top form with all the demands going on?
I’m a big advocate for mental health, and I still think nowadays that we don’t put anywhere near emphasis on that as a society, community, and human beings and understanding that everybody is going through something every single day. All of our stories look different. I don’t have any human children, a spouse, or things like that to worry about. There are many people who juggle children, families, careers, and everything. They are exhausted. I cannot imagine what they go through each and every day. I always say, “I’m tired girl. I like to nap, rest, and recharge.”
My mom always taught me, “Listen to your body. Rest when you need to rest.” That’s a common misconception when we feel weary that we either lay down and die, or we have to push through and be this warrior and Spartan. There isn’t in between. There is a rest for your body, mind, and soul. I do think that rest, mental health, and things like that are not spoken about or putting a positive light enough because we’re programmed, “You can do it. Push through it. Everybody else has done it. Everybody else can do it with even more on their plate. Why can’t you?”
That scene behind everybody going through something behind their eyes every single day and knowing it’s all different is something that brings us back to unite us as well because everybody’s story is different, but everybody needs to break and rest. That weariness leaning into it a little bit, resting, and doing things is what’s needed. We’re going to talk about changing things from negative to positive, but it’s not a negative thing that we need some downtime. One of the things we talked about was different things that enthuse people, that are good goals, or help you to do your every day and do it better. One of those for me is traveling. I like to always have a trip on the books, a small trip, a long weekend, or something with the girls. It is anything like that is on the books to be that thing for me.
Everybody is going through something behind their eyes every single day. Everybody needs to take a break.
I’m going to trudge through to get to that trip, “I just need to get there in how many days.” I am filling that time and compartmentalizing what I can achieve within there and then rewarding myself. We had a coach at work and we still have him. One of the things that I love that he said was to not goal jump. “We’re going to reach these goals from a personal standpoint. We’re going to be tired and afraid. We’re going to do it anyway. When we get these, we’re going to celebrate them. We’re going to celebrate these goalposts. We’re not going to whiz by them because we are going to do, and we’re not going to stop to reach these goals before we get to this personal. This S-curve, we’re going to stop and acknowledge.”
That helps with the weariness, burnout, things that drag you down, and having something that makes you feel alive and having that on the books. If it’s going to get Chinese food and watch the sunset, which I do often, I’m going there, sitting, relaxing, watching the people, reading a book, going on a trip, doing something for yourself, a class that you’ve been putting off, or anything like that. It could be many things. I love to watch crime shows at night.
I love to eat have snacks and watch crime shows for hours at night. Some people say, “You could be reading a book. You could be doing this.” There is time for those things, but sometimes it is time for snacks, crime shows, and stand-up comedy. Some things put you in a better mood. It can be as low-key and as small as watching a TV show you like. It is stopping and realizing that you’re here, you get to be here, and you get to choose what you want to do to bring a smile to your face or the opposite of that. You need a good cry or moment of anger to be, sit with that, feel it, and experience it. Those all come back and weariness dragging us down the type of deal.
With mental health, what you’re describing is mindfulness and being very present, whether it be a vacation. There are times when, like you, I do the same thing because I can work 24/7. That’s the pace I run at. As leaders, you have to realize not everybody can do that. I got that from my dad. I got the genetic go-forever gene from my dad, but that’s not everybody. We still have to take time. I love that, and it was very purposeful. One of my courses was, “You have to Sabbath and stop always looking forward. Be pressing. Celebrate where you are,” and then I get to go, “Look how blessed I am.” There are 50 million things still up there. Otherwise, you never stop and get to enjoy what you’ve done. You’re always running to the next thing in the future you. That’s hard on your body.
That manifests everywhere like your mental health and when you don’t feel good. That comes from a physical standpoint.
It did for me. My adrenal gland was shot. I thought it was chronic fatigue, but it was, “I was it. I was done.” I had to sleep 23 hours a day instead of running 24 hours a day until my body said, “We’re not doing this anymore.” You have to be very mindful of that.
Time for a little rest.
Not all activity is a good activity, but it always depletes. You got to recharge. I love that you love to travel. Rescuing is a good thing for you.
I had 6 cats and 1 dog. I am down to four cats. We’re staying steady at that. We’re not getting more. They’re all elderly. My oldest one needs some dental work. Animals are pure joy. There was a lot of work that people skipped over, and they bring so much into this.
Being Present: Animals offer the purest joy.
Some people are like, “The work,” and I’m like, “Then don’t.” I’m like you. The high point of my day is anytime I go into my two little Aussie puppies, I unlock the crate, and they come flying out at me. I don’t care what a day it is. I love it.
People probably think I’m a nut if my neighbors can hear me because I walk through the door every single day. They’re always laying on the couch when I get home and I say, “Ladies and gentlemen, your mother’s home.”
Could you tell them how hard you work? That’s what I tell them. I’m like, “Mommy has to go bring home the bacon so you guys can live the life. You lay here. Let mommy take care of you.” That’s beautiful, and it gives us great joy. We help rescuers because that’s a worrisome job, going after animals and animals. It never ends, but it never stops. A lot of them do that with their own finances. People like us are, “Somebody has got to take them,” otherwise the whole system gets jammed up. I’m always like, “Somebody’s got to help alleviate the fosters and the rescue organization. Somebody has to help them. If you can help them, help them.”
They are at another level. It’s unreal.
Talking about animals, the next thing my dad talked about was abandonment, which in the animal kingdom and the rescue world is a big no-no. We’ve heard about that fear of abandonment, people who suffer from attachment issues, have been abandoned as a child, or had somebody divorce walk out on them, but that’s not the abandonment he was talking about. He was talking about the things that we need to abandon that we like and want to do in favor of what we ought and need to do.
I remember my dad. I’m like, “You’re successful. How did you get successful?” He’s like, “I do more in a day to contribute to my failure than my success.” I’m like, “How is that even possible?” He goes, “It’s being meticulous and honest with yourself. Yes, you have to have downtime, but be honest about, ‘Is this the best in my time? This book, partner, habit, or whatever.’” You can’t juggle everything because we’re not Wonder Woman. Something will drop or we’ll hurt and compromise ourselves physically. How do you stay finely tuned and focused on what you need to do to move your life forward?
One of the first things I’ve enacted over the last couple of years a little e bit more is simply saying no to some things. It sounds a little bit more forward-thinking feature because when you say no, it’s not because you don’t wish to do something with somebody and you don’t wish to spend the time. It could be an amazing event. It could be something like that, but you forward think a little bit yourself when that time comes. I always start to try to do this habit, “How am I going to feel when it comes time to do this event or this option?” It is because I’ve learned over the years that I say yes every single time, and when it comes time to do it, I am not joyful about doing it longer, whether that’s an event, a party, or it could even be something philanthropic.
You don’t have the capacity for every single thing you want to do. When that time comes, how am I going to feel? Am I going to feel excited three weeks from now at 6:00 on a Tuesday when I said yes to doing this, or am I going to think, “You should have thought about it a little harder a few weeks ago?” My pullback is to stop and think before I say yes because it’s something I probably will end up enjoying. Unfortunately, we can’t base everything on enjoyment and that type of deal. That’s been my great thoughts.
Being Present: Stop and think before you say yes to anything.
I’m getting better at that because there’s something about saying yes, “Could you take over this?” “Yes,” then I’m like, “What have I done?” I love that you said, “How am I going to feel when that happens?” Think about it. In the back of my mind, I was doing that, but I liked this because we were asked to do it. I tell people at least half the stuff I do is either volunteer, at least half, probably more philanthropic or something that’s not a “lever” to pull for the business.
In business, you’re going to say yes because you’re running your business. I like that, “How am I going to feel?” You catch people that say yes to something, and then they’re like, “What did I say yes to that?” They grouse. I tell people, “If you did say yes, you have to do it with joy.” Next time, don’t say yes because my friend Lisa said, “Ask yourself, ‘How am I going to feel?’” That’s a good one.
If we choose to, it’s not going to benefit or behoove us to be worn out. I’m not excited about the things we do want to do. I have a couple of friends who try to trick people and say, “What are you doing on this date at this time?” I’m like, “I’m not sure what I’m doing. What are you talking about?” Honestly, to lay it all out front, that’s how I am. I want to know the black-and-white of it first that it’s not always from a feeling standpoint because if I fast forward to several weeks from now and I think, “I’d rather be in a robe on my couch,” that’s okay. That’s enough of an answer for myself.
That’s great, and that will help you. Even partnering with somebody working with a particular author or a meeting planner, I already get a sense of how this is going to go and if it’s going to be a joy or if it’s going to be not so joyful. I like that. It is to say, “Is this going to be edifying for both of you? Is this going to be a real pain in the neck?”
There’s the opposite side of that coin as well. You’re not sure and your future self will thank you for that when you set yourself up for success in things like that. The term abandonment could be abandoning these things or it could be leaning into these other things. It depends on your perception of that because abandonment could be from a personal standpoint. It could be deep-rooted internally. There could be things that trigger people in this form of business standpoint from anything else, but also abandoning thoughts of these negative notions and these things that we always say yes, even if they’re positive. Abandonment can be fun to a positive life.
It is something you need to let go of to embrace the future. You can’t have two spouses. At least not in Pennsylvania. You can’t have two jobs. You can’t be double-minded or even have negative thoughts. I can’t have negative and positive thoughts in my mind at the same time. Pick a lane. I love that you talked about if you get to it, abandonment means, “No, we’re done with that.” You can for yourself up, be open, and talk about your future self thanking you.
It’s always tough because it’s a death. Even if it’s a bad friend, marriage, or job, you’re still ending something. That’s hard because there’s an element of failure, insecurity, or scariness, but to take that next step, you have to let go of what you were doing before. I asked people when I worked for one of them in the future. I go, “What are you going to change because what if this is still going on in a year?” “It won’t.” “What are you going to stop doing?” “I don’t know.” “You’re going to get the same thing in a year.” Abandonment, in that sense, like loneliness, is a pruning. It’s a cutting away of the dead, diseased, or dying. As we’re evolving, we always have to be looking at that and doing that.
I’m glad you touched on that with having too many things going on being by myself a lot more and being able to cultivate a lot of these ideas that I didn’t even know I had, to be very frank, taking notes in different things, ideas for businesses, and all the different things going through my head. Sometimes, I’m somebody who can’t have too many balls in the air. Sometimes I need to go ahead and establish this timeline and items and abandon these other items for a short time. Maybe I’ll come back to them. Because I can do several things well, I can’t do seventeen things well and keep that going.
Sometimes even as women, we are like, “We have to do it all.” Stop. Don’t play that martyr thing. Sometimes people do what they think because they like that. I’m like, “That’s not good.” If you’re going to do seventeen things, you are doing with joy, but it’s not feasible. You need to abandon some of those things like thinking you can do it all. For some people, that’s the joy of getting to tell everybody they’re doing everything, but I digress.
Back to the price of leadership, the last thing you talked about was vision. I can remember I sat growing up with the Ken Blanchards and Norman Vincent Peales. I’m like, “These guys are visionaries.” I was like, “I don’t think I’m a visionary.” My dad was always like, “You are. It’s just seeing what needs to be done and then doing it.” There was a very strategic but also a tactical aspect, and I’m like, “That I can do.” How do you hone your vision for what’s next in your life and these ideas that are coming up and how does that fit the Lisa of the next 5, 10, or 15 years?
I do a lot of thinking, reflecting, and things like that. My mom is such a strong woman that she is a fraction of the woman that she is in my entire life. She is beyond. I didn’t know that she was cultivating the seed inside me since I was very little of watching her, having strength, and being able to do what people don’t think you can do. She did it and she did it with grace. She never ever put her problems on other people. That’s one of the things that I make sure that I try not to let my own and not share with people, but it’s a matter of not letting your own learning, own negativity, and things spill onto others.
Do not let your negativity spill onto other people.
That was one of the things that she made sure even when hard things happened to her and a lot of hard things happened to her. It wasn’t anybody else’s fault. That’s such a strong foundation that starting out when I was younger, “You can do things in what you put your mind to. You can do these things.” As I got a little older, a lot of it was situational. I had a job, and the people around me said, “You can do this. Would you like to interview for this position?” or things like that. It is little things that build your confidence that you find out you can do as you go.
It’s crazy how I got into this position because I didn’t have the experience that I thought, “I was never going to get this position ever.” It was the wildest interview I’ve ever had because I’m like, “They’re going to ask me about all my previous experience. I’m going to have to tell them I don’t have any. It’s going to be a sad time. I’m going to walk out the door. It’s going to be hard, but I’m going to go through this all and learn from it,” but their questions are, “Are you loyal and adaptable? Can you move in a fast-paced environment? Can you move with grace? This is going to be hard. We have a lot of amazing clients.”
I’m thinking, “Yes,” but when we’re going to get to the questions that I’m going to have to say no to, they never got to those questions that I had to say no to. It was the most eye-opening experience. I never had any corporate experience before in that realm. I’m thinking, “This must be a one. This isn’t going to be the position that I thought. I’m only going to be very short time because I don’t even know what I’m doing.” In positive things I’ve said yes to and the people around me, my family’s strength and leadership are giving me goosebumps.
They are those who have believed in me and pushed me to that next level to help me push myself, so that vision comes from them, me, and from the circular movement of us bouncing these ideas, passions, and caring about each other as humans off of each other over and over every single day. My personal business leads into the business vision. That leads back to my personal vision and things that seemed far away, unattainable, and unachievable, but great things to talk about.
We’ve seen a business come to fruition, and we’re only a couple of steps off this feeling-less ladder. To see that and to see it be real from a personal standpoint has stopped and made me think, “Why not me?” There are many people and famous celebrities, all these interviews and things, “Why did you think you could do it?” They thought, “There are many people around me. Why not me? Why can’t I go?” I had that same negative self-talk, “Why would I be the one to go for it? Why would I push myself? Why would I be somebody who would be a leader or who would be in these positions and not somebody else who is more qualified or experienced?”
At the end of the day, they’re not you or me. We all bring such different things to the table. I was talking to a friend and I said, “You don’t even know. This has happened for eleven and a half years straight, and it happens to me every single day. Every morning, it’s like a roller coaster.” In the very early morning, I start to think, “How am I going to get everything done? How am I going to be able to have the knowledge and the experience? How am I going to conquer the tasks that I need to and the clients I need to speak with? What needs to happen? How am I going to do this?”
It moves into a little bit more negative. There are one million people who are more qualified and experienced than me, who worked for a Fortune 100 company, and who can do this. By mid-morning, I’m getting a little bit of a stride and I’m like, “I’m getting things done. I’m doing this.” By early afternoon, I’m like, “I am here.” By late afternoon, I’m like, “I’m where I’m supposed to be. They are as lucky to have me as I am to have them.” I leave with a side and the whole thing starts the next morning.
Some people say, “That’s not healthy.” I would tend to disagree because you need a level of leveling, a level of humility, and an understanding of how many amazing people there are. You can gather from just being in our class the people around me. There could be an interaction at the grocery store where you gather something from somebody that sticks with you. People are amazing and to think through, see the opportunity, and get to it as opposed to having something that has stuck with me over the years.
You get to do this every day. You get to try to be your best and show up for people. However, that turns out for the day, knowing that you did your best and showed up as your true and real self. That’s where I am in my life in this season. It is that authenticity that brings it home because there are people who are not going to from a personal standpoint, but they do from a business standpoint. You can go in and pick somebody apart in every way, shape, and form. I’m somebody who thrives on positive reinforcement.
If I see even a glimmer of something positive or something like, “I got that. Now I can get the next thing. I can at least try,” I start to get this little bit of wind beneath my wings to help put things up. It’s this constant whatever you want to call it, angel or demon. It is necessary because you got to know how great other people are, but you also have to believe in yourself and commend the people around you for helping build you into who you are.
Being Present: Commend the people around you for helping you build into who you are right now.
Thank you for being very authentic about that. My dad was always very clear about that. He’s like, “I’m a failure too.” It wasn’t a degradation. It was a humility. He knew there were many better speakers out there. There are many people that sold more books. I appreciate you saying that. It makes sure you never get to fully yourself and never content because you’re constantly on this, “Revert back. I’m strong enough. Tomorrow is another day.” People see the sun, sit back, and get stale, like, “What got you there won’t keep you there.” I love that you’re looking at that, but I love that you talked about the vision.
You are with people that you almost borrow their vision. Now that I’m teaching in the financial planning world, I know my dad loved it so much, and if I had to do it over again, although I had a great career, you cannot succeed if you’re chewing people up and getting rid of them. Not everybody is perfect. I’ve been around. I understand, but it seems like in the financial planning industry, they saw you and they realize that you may not see it, but they see it in you.
You were opening up to borrow their vision in you, and then there’s this symbiotic relationship. You got to have your vision. We talked about that in the CLF Program. You have your individual motivations, but then it’s tied to the organization. It is the fact that you for many years, every morning, get up and get energized about this. This is what everybody craves. This is what all those TikTok people say, “I quit after eleven and a half minutes.” This is what they’re looking for, maybe not and they just like making TikTok videos.
I don’t have TikTok. I’m not sure what you mean.
Everybody is like, “I quit.” My dad would say, “You can’t quit. You have done nothing yet.” You go in and you’re thankful. They’re like, “This isn’t for me.” I’m like, “You don’t even know. You have even tried.” You’re willing to look at vision as a shared enterprise and realize that vision is a shared thing. An organization can’t be 50 different visionaries all pull in different directions. That’s crazy, but you talked about them and what they saw in you and you were open to say yes. You drew from that. I also know why you scheduled our show for the late afternoon. I’m glad we didn’t talk in the morning. Usually, people sign up first thing in the morning. I’m always like, “That is funny that you said that.”
We blur the lines a little bit as we get a little older. You hear some of these younger kids, “I can’t do something I’m not passionate about.” Even I’m like, “What do you mean?”
There’s going to be a lot, “I don’t like paying taxes. I don’t like not eating sugar. I don’t like picking up dog poop.” There’s going to be a lot you’re going to have to do.
It’s got to be given in all forms of life and ways as you get older. From a personal standpoint, from a vision, I have big goals that I wish to achieve. I want to build my home. That’s been my ultimate goal for decades. I want to build a home for myself, and then I also come back to traveling and then doing things for more things for my family because it is what they’ve done for me growing up. Having an opportunity to do that is what pushes me. Having that within the grasp and being able to is beyond measure.
Your vision is tied to your why. You’re very clear, it’s got enough of them and emotional. It’s personal and it’s your why. When people would be like, “I don’t know if I can sell anymore,” my dad is like, “It’s not a productivity thing. You have to get back to your why.” It is as long as you’re always going back to that. That sense of gratitude always keeps you there. You’re there to choose success not just for yourself but for everybody else in everything you’re saying. I love it. We covered loneliness, weariness abandonment, and vision. Anything else that we have not touched on as far as leadership that you would like to share with our readers?
We’ve touched on a whole lot. I mentioned earlier that one of the big things that keep rearing its head in this season of life and a lot lately is everything being a trade-off. It’s not necessarily in relationships where everything is a trade-off and business things are a trade-off. It is understanding that sometimes we trade-in. Have you ever seen Jesus with the teddy bear? There is this girl with a little teddy bear. He’s telling her to give it up. He’s got a giant teddy behind his back, but she can’t see it. We all have that where we grip tightly the things that we think are good for us but aren’t meant for us, but we’re content enough that we want to hold on and we don’t want to see what’s behind his back when it could be great.
Everything is a trade-off in business and relationships.
We don’t know and it’s stepping into that unknown. That’s one of the things that I hope that more people will lean into and recognize the power within themselves to be with them a little bit, explore, and know how much they have inside of them that can be brought up and drawn out, whether it’s with the right people, scenario, or situation. We’re not always going to be in those, but realizing that there’s much more inside you than what you think. It can be brought out with the tiniest of things and you can cultivate that from your own self-worth, excitement, and things like that.
I love that you said that for readers, “The tiniest of things,” because some people are like, “It’s going to take too much work.” It has to be your book and I’ll publish it.
For this interview, I’ve been jotting down all these random things that come to mind. I give myself a chance to process or bring them out on myself previously. I thought, “I’m going to leave those aside. I’m going to have a conversation.” I’m thinking in my head, “What if I make those into a book? What if I did want to do something like that in the future?” This stuff comes to you when you don’t even consider it. It leaks out of you in the best of ways. If you could publish my book, I’d appreciate it so much. This is a very large thing.
Our connection was a phenomenal class, the connections that we had, and you learning and getting to read your papers, then get to know somebody when they write about what they’re going through. It is such a joy to watch. It’s impressive. Your mom must be so proud of you.
Thank you so much. It’s funny because she says, “You wanted to write a paper? In this many years, I’ve never seen you excited to write.”
Isn’t it beautiful? I almost flunked out of college twice. Now I’m like, “No, it’s different.” When you place where you want to learn, you’re excited, and you get your act together, “I am a radically different student than what I was before.” That’s the beauty of adult learning. You’ll want to learn.
When you’re able to choose a little bit more of where you’re spending on what subjects and work it into your everyday life, it’s magic.
What’s the best way for people to get in touch with you?
You’re welcome to connect with me on LinkedIn. You’re also welcome to send me an email.
You want to connect with tremendous Lisa, learn more about her, and have her in your network of people. Lisa, where are you located at?
I am near Cleveland Ohio, about half an hour-ish West of Cleveland. If anybody wants to chat and bounce some ideas, I would love to learn from you and gather some of those thoughts because I’m sure that everybody reading has so much to offer. I would be grateful to be able to speak with anybody.
Thank you so much. This has been at such a time of getting to know you more. We’re in between class breaks. You’re getting ready to start again. I’m blessed to have you in my life. I’m excited about what you shared and what’s next for you.
Thank you so much. I am as well. I’m grateful and excited.
To our readers, it is time for us to bid adieu. If you like what you read, please hit the subscribe button. How about sharing this with somebody who needs to read Lisa’s wonderful words of wisdom about what it takes to pay the price of leadership? If you would do us the honor of a review, we would be thankful too. Never forget, you’re going to be the same person five years now except for two things, the people you meet and the books you read. As long as you keep doing that, you are going to be more than ready, willing, and able to pay the price of leadership. Thank you all so much for reading and have a tremendous rest of the day.
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About Lisa Michener
Lisa Michener is the Chief Communications and Marketing Officer at a financial planning firm and has been there for 11 years. Lisa is a lover of all things food, an avid horror movie fan, a stand-up comedy enthusiast, loves to travel, adores her 4 rescue kitties at home, and you cannot pry her off of a dance floor if you try! Spending time with family and friends is her most valued venture of all these, and she tries to embody an attitude of gratitude every single day.