Episode 192 - Shelly Lappi - Leaders On Leadership
In this engaging episode, we are joined by Dr. Shelly Lappi, a seasoned educator with over 25 years of experience. Discover invaluable leadership strategies as Dr. Lappi shares insights on handling loneliness, weariness, and maintaining a clear vision in leadership roles. Tune in to learn how her collaborative approach and commitment to self-care drive success and resilience in education. Don't miss this inspiring conversation filled with practical advice and heartfelt moments.
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Shelly Lappi - Leaders On Leadership
Welcome to the show where we pull back the curtain on leadership and talk with leaders of all ages and all stages about what it takes to pay the price of leadership. I have a very special guest for you. Her name is Dr. Shelly Lappi. Shelly, welcome.
It’s so good to see you. I’ve missed you.
I missed you, too. Let me tell you a little bit about Shelly. Dr. Shelly Lappi has been an educator for several years. For seven of those years, she was a teacher. Ten of those years, she was an assistant principal and she is now a Principal. She is also an Adjunct Part-Time Teacher at various colleges in their Masters of Education and Leadership courses, which is why we have her on this episode.
She loves fly fishing and The Chosen. For those of you who may or may not know this, Shelly and I went out to Midlothian, Texas, for The Chosen, The Feeding of the 5,000. We were a couple of gentile gals like we are now out there seeing the miracles. If you see season 3, episode 8, you can spot us. Ask us and we’ll show you exactly where we are, but we call ourselves a Chosen nut.
I’ve known Shelly for many years. She reached out to me years ago when I was looking for some possible coaching or consulting with owning her leadership chops as an educator and as a leader of many different people in the system. We became fast friends from there. She lives right down the road from me. We have many things in. Shelly, again, I’m honored that you accepted my invitation to be on this show and you’re going to share your wisdom with our readers.
I’m the honored one. I’m so glad to be here. I read your show with these elite people I call them every day. I usually read them twice and sometimes three times because I can’t catch everything the first time. I was just thinking, “How do I measure up with something like this?” I read them all the time. I’m learning so much. It’s an honor to be here. I’m always learning from you.
Every time we’re together, I’m learning something new and something different. I do have to tell you one thing. I don’t fly fish. It’s regular. I don’t even know what the word is. It’s regular fishing. I don’t know if it’s called cast or reel. Whatever it is. It’s just not fly fishing. I would love to learn how to fly fish, but I don’t know how to do that yet.
Maybe we could teach you that sometimes because Mike loves to fly fish, but she’s a fisherwoman. Fishermen and women and she loves fishing.
I love fish.
The Price Of Leadership: Loneliness
That was a lot of fun. We’re going to go ahead and get started. Shelly, my father talks about the price of leadership. This is a speech he gave many decades ago and is still one of the bestselling things that we’ve put out there. I transcribed it into a little booklet, but he talks about, “If you’re going to be a leader, there’s a price you’re going to have to pay. It’s not all glamor, corner offices and bonuses.”
One of the things that he talks about is loneliness. There’s an element of loneliness entailed with being a leader. Could you unpack for us, maybe, what that means for you, your journey and education throughout the years or even in your personal or spiritual life? What does loneliness mean for you? Maybe if you have been through a season of that or in one now, maybe some words of counsel that you get to our readers.
I’m social by nature and that’s how I’m created. I’m super relational. I honestly can’t say that I experience a lot of loneliness in terms of longer periods of time. When I was first learning in the fieldwork of becoming a principal, one of the first things they told us was, “Leadership is lonely. It’s lonely at the top. Get used to that.” That stuck with me in a sense where I don’t want that to be me. I felt like saying maybe that’s a choice.
When I experience loneliness, it’s more about when I have to make a hard decision that only I can make or that I have to make a decision that’s not popular with or consensus, which we know popular opinion, we’re never going to get consensus with certain situations. That can be lonely for me because, in some parts, I’m a pleaser at times. We can talk a little bit more about that when we mention and talk about abandonment.
I’m so collaborative that it’s very rare that I feel lonely because in our position, I look at everybody as our team. Everybody’s a valuable member of our team and I don’t look at it as there’s a lot of hierarchy. At the end of the day, I know I’m the principal and I know that everything falls on me and I’m okay with that. In that process, it’s more collaborative. We all have buy-in and input. We make decisions together.
True leadership isn’t about hierarchy but about collaboration and valuing every team member’s input.
It’s not a super lonely time for me in that regard. A time or they’re more like snapshots of loneliness in that regard. I will say, however, that COVID was lonely. As an educator and as a principal, socially my SEQ or EQ rather is relatively high because I’m in tune with emotions. I can read a room quickly and I’m emotional and relational. I wanted to be with people, and that was hard for me. Very early in that process, I had to figure out how am I going to make connections with people that are not behind the screen?
We started finding ways to do home visits and reward kids for showing up on Zoom and reward kids for doing the right thing and getting the work done. We reward families for being the learning coaches next to their kids. For staff appreciation, my office team and I mapped out every single staff member that we had. Mapped them out, meaning we’re driving there, and we drove to every single person’s house over the course of staff appreciation week. I wanted to have that human connection with them and let them know you’re seeing and valued. I see you. I appreciate you. Even though we don’t get to see one another, we’re not like hugging in person and connecting that way.
I’m coming to your doorstep even if we’re masked and even if I can’t come in. I want you to know that I value you and appreciate you. That was a period of loneliness for me and it was a struggle. I tried to use it for good, learn other tools and retreat when I needed to. Jesus went away and was lonely. He spent time in the wilderness by himself and he stepped the waste. Even though it’s not my go-to or my default, I can handle it when I need to in like snippets.
They talk it’s lonely at the top. I don’t think they ever want you to isolate because, as you said, especially in education. It is so much more of a collaborative enterprise, at least being in colleges and teaching and stuff than maybe in traditional brick-and-mortar companies. It is a collective hype. As you said, when you get to the hard decisions and I know you’ve had a few.
We’ve talked to quite a few where it falls on you and that’s good to emphasize that. I love the snapshots versus seasons, but it’s going to affect the song because you still have to keep the mission overarching. You’re going to have differing opinions and people judging you all the time about, “Why’d you do this?”
You make a decision, and you make it the right one. If it’s not, you learn and grow from it. Good will come from it. I say that all the time like there’s good in every situation. I read a book, Chop Wood Carry Water, by Josh Medcalf. It’s amazing. He has us overarching theme that’s throughout the book and it says, “Everything that happens to me is an opportunity for me to learn and grow in my best interest.” I view it like that. There’s good in every situation. We find the good. Good will come from it. I love how you always say, “God’s already seen it through to the end.” I hear myself saying that often, like, “He has. It’s going to work out one way or another. It’s going to be okay.”
Combating Weariness In Leadership
Thank you, Shelly. Now, the next thing he talked about was weariness. He explained to me early on in my leadership as a young girl. He said, “Tracey, it’s tough. “You’ve got a lot of responsibilities more than most. That’s why you’re at the top, why you have more responsibility, and why it falls to you. There’s going to be times where there are people helping you shoulder the burden. There’s going to be a lot of people that just aren’t.” How do you combat weariness? It’s got to be so tiring. Get all this stuff from the outside about education. You get the parents. You’re trying to meet the interests of the kids. How do you stay at the top fighting for them, Shelly?
Especially now in education, where people aren’t running to it as much they’re running from it. Retirements are earlier every year. People are finding ways to get things lined up so that they can do something different. For me, I have to stay true to the vision. It’s about kids and we put kids first. Our team here is exceptional.
It is the very best group of people I have ever worked with and I ever will work with. They make me better every day. I feel like it’s that loneliness piece. It’s like snippets. I don’t allow myself to get weary. I don’t allow myself to get weary for too long and stay down too long. I value self-care. I work hard and play hard. Sometimes, work hard and play harder. Sometimes work harder and still play hard. It’s that balance.
I feel like if I’m not good and caring for myself and I’m not in a good space emotionally, socially, physically, and spiritually. I’m not going to be good for anybody else. I can’t pour from an empty cup. I try to take good care of myself. I do. When I’m away from this place, I always feel like such a geek about this, but I can’t wait to come back. I drive an hour one way for the people because I love the group of people here. My gratitude for them runs so deep. I can’t even emphasize it and express it in ways I want to.
I can never overemphasize it. They are the best. They combat my weariness. The kids, the families, the teachers and the staff, they motivate me. It deepened my heart that I can’t wait to be with them. It’s the people here. I’m weary at times because I work on managing my own time better and not burning the candle so much on both ends.
Yet, I still do that because I want to be my best. It’s not something that you should wear with a badge of honor when you’re working 70 or 80 hours a week. That’s not a good thing. I’ve got to figure out how to manage my time better and not get weary. The struggle in the timepiece is when I’m at school. I want to spend my time with the people. When I’m spending my time with people, it sets me back with other things that have to be done as well that aren’t with people. They’re paper pencil things and things that are just office-y clerical things.
At the end of the day, the people are what makes the difference. I can always make up the time somewhere else. I just have to figure out where that is. Saying yes to one thing means saying no to something else. When I say yes to people, it’s no to weariness sometimes because I want to help people to be their best and be an example and know that I’m on their front row, cheering them on and in their corner. I feel like you can’t do that from the office. Where you spend your time, it shows people what matters to you. People matter to me here. They’re the best group.
That’s what most people are. They’re relational and interactive. There are some leaders that favor more, the less interactive. That’s fine. You’re incredibly self-aware. You know where you get your energy from. It’s from being with the people. For leaders that are not you, understand that the majority of the population is them. You are what you are in your natural zone when you’re interacting with people. The other thing, Shelly. I’ve noticed about you over the years, you had an amazing blend.
Whenever something starts tipping or the alarm goes off like, “Wait, danger. Something’s not right. I see something coming.” You immediately get with people to shore up your resources, pray, and talk it over. I look at other leaders. A lot of times, they hold back to the last minute and it’s a slow, awful drain. They only open up their mouths and look for help when it’s like DEF CON 4. The earlier you share a burden, the sooner it can get resolved and the lighter the load.
I love how you do that. I know you love work. I know you drive an hour each way, but you spend a lot of time at the beach supporting your girlfriends at different ministries. You’re always in different places. I love that you fill your cup in so many different aspects. I know what works for you, but it’s one aspect of all the different places where you draw your energy, and that’s important.
May I say something about that real quick? I appreciate that you mentioned that you’re resourceful. I reach out and get prayer and circle up with those people who speak truth into my life. I appreciate that for a lot of reasons. I also know that some people would consider that a weakness. I feel like if you’re the smartest one in the room, you’re in the wrong room. I want to be around people that are going to be better for me. I don’t know my blind spots. I also don’t always know the landmines I’m going to step in.
As you said, when I can see something on the horizon, I’m like, “I want to get myself in check here. I want to be able to think through this and process this. Let me get around people that have been there, done that smarter and better.” I can’t do that alone. It’s a we thing. Not a me and we is greater than me. I always want to be better and the best I can be for them. It’s about being vulnerable and transparent and humble in the sense that I have to admit, I don’t have the answers. I don’t have all the answers and I’m going to go to and surround myself with people who can help me and help me process this and work through it.
I feel like I’ve never peaked and I wish I could have said that in my former self, even my former leader self years ago, I’m like, “I learned so much in each experience and in the valleys.” Though, we don’t ask for those times. It’s when we grow the most. It’s that fertile soil which God uses to grow us. I’m so blown away and you have been so instrumental in my growth. I talk about you all the time of my TTJ, Tracey Tremendous Jones. You just won’t ever know, Tracey. Honestly, how much you have grown me as a person, as a Christian and as a leader.
I wish I had a little button that I could push, like, “What would Tracey say right now?” You’ve grown me so much in so many ways that I wish I had met you many years ago so that I could even been better then than I am now. Still, I’m perfectly imperfect and that’s what we are here as a team. You’ve been so instrumental in my growth, good or bad. I’m so grateful for you and I talk about you to the team all the time. I’m like, “How do I get to do this?” I don’t have to do this. I get to do this. I get out of my car every day and I look up. I thank God that he picked me for this place for such a time as this.
Shelly, it’s never a weakness. We’ve had this conversation. I have this conversation when I share. Sometimes, I’ll share something and somebody will look at me and say, “You know what to do.” I’m like, “I do have what to do.” Other times, they’re like, “I’m glad you came to me because we need to come together. We need to get assistance. We need to get clarity and prayer.”
Whoever looks at that as a weakness, they’re probably in their 30s. Remember, that’s back when we were little pipsqueaks and we thought we had to know everything. The older you get as a lady, you realize, “When you ask for assistance or feedback, you are allowing someone else to pour into your life.” The blessing is mine, dear sister. I know you say that, but that’s the beauty of sharing with somebody and pouring into other lives. You pour into mine as much as I pour into yours. There you have it. Perfect. Do you know what? If we wanted to meet many years ago, then all our work would be done, and we’d already be in heaven.
You’re right.
God knows better than us. Next, abandonment. Abandonment, not in the sense that we hear about, we struggle with fear of abandonment or a pad or a relationship or abandoning God. Charles talked about it as a pruning. We need to abandon what we want and like to do in favor of what we ought and need to do. That’s at the heart of self-discipline. Self-discipline is rooted in knowing what’s your highest and greatest purpose. Shelly, with all the things that are on you. All the things people probably ask you to do and come up with, and the landscape and education are constantly changing. How do you stay singularly focused?
Focusing On Leading Over Pleasing
I’ve thought about this and what keeps coming back to my mind and heart about abandonment. I might have said this a little earlier, but it’s more about me letting go of pleasing and focusing more on leading. That’s a struggle for me. It always has been and it always will be. I’m going to keep growing and I don’t know that I’ll master that because I care what people think. I have to work and strive to care less being that impacts the decisions I make.
Leadership means letting go of pleasing others and focusing on leading. It's about moving forward with the mission and vision.
I care what people think but I can’t care enough that it impacts the mission and the true vision that we have of moving forward. I’ve worked on that. I’ve been very transparent with our team about that it’s been a goal every year to work on more leading rather and less pleasing. That’s also biblical. I hear God sometimes saying to me like, “You care too much about what people think, and that’s about what I think of you. You’re wonderfully and beautifully made, Shelly. Now go and make a difference then pursue the calling that I have for you. Stop worrying so much.”
Public opinion will never be unanimous. I have to get past and nor do we want it to be. That keeps us humble and on our knees when people aren’t all in. We want the majority to be all in. We just don’t want those people in the boat secretly drilling holes in the boat we’re in the direction we’re going. That’s where you have to be careful of.
I tried to establish boundaries with myself and trying to do better with what I’m given and the resources I’m given and let go of the uncontrollables. I want to control the controllables and let go of those things that are outside of my circle of control. There’s plenty that I can control. I have to focus more on that and focus on doing the next right thing and letting go of past mistakes or past decisions. Even if it was a wrong decision. You learn and grow from it. I’m working on letting go of those things and abandoning sometimes, I would say maybe like unrealistic expectations that I have of myself sometimes.
I’m single and I’m 50. That’s not a public service announcement, but I also have time to be the best I can be because I’m not going home to feed kids and a husband. I’m thankful for that. There’s spiritual wealth in being single. Jesus talks about that a lot in the Bible. I’m able to do those things and spend more time preparing for my job here because I don’t have all those external factors outside of school that are buying from my attention.
I have an advantage over a lot of good leaders out there who are terribly meaning a lot of time burning the candle at both ends. I do it because it’s a choice and I still have to get better at it. As you said, I have self-care. I’m at the beach. I’m fishing. I try to have a better balance, especially in the summer. I’m trying to let go of those things that aren’t good for me as a leader and a person. Also, recognizing they have a place to visit. I just can’t live there.
I love that you talked about, “When I was 50.” I didn’t get married until 56 and no kids. I love that when people talk about work-life balance. I always thought I was blessed that I could focus on work and God and my pets. That sure it does it. I’m thankful. His grace is sufficient. The pleasing thing is something that, even if you’re the highest D in the book, everybody has a desire and cares what people think and want to be like and respected. Knowing that and knowing that’s your thing. As you said, that’s the thing that’ll keep you leaning on Christ all the time.
That’s what I was going to say. Eleanor Roosevelt has a quote, like, “You do what you feel, and you’re hard to be right because you’ll be criticized.” It’s like the old no good deed goes unpunished type of thing. I try to make decisions in the best interest of our staff, our team, our kids, and our kids especially. If we all do that, then we’re all headed in the same direction. It’s not easy. It’s like parenting. You’re going to make decisions some days that people like you and they’re going to be all in.
You’re going to make decisions sometimes that people don’t and that’s okay too. We want harmony and that’s not always possible. We have to learn and grow together and help each other out and be vulnerable to say, “I can’t do this or I made a mistake,” and own it. Say, “I’m sorry. I did not mean to come across that way.” Abandoning things like perfection and thinking I have to have it all together and all right all the time.
Far from that, it’s not too hard to let go of thinking that I have it all together. Sometimes, that can creep up and the devil can do that sometimes and show you where the kinks are in your armor. You have to stay focused. I want to stay more focused on Jesus because I have that time in a car. I need to turn that more into my prayer closet. I read shows like yours every morning, and I also need to spend more time with Jesus because, ultimately, he’s the leader of all leaders. If I could be a fraction of the leader that he is. I’m better today than yesterday. If we can get 1% better each week and take two weeks off. We’re still 50% better the next year.
Leadership Strategies: Leadership isn’t about having it all together. It's about being vulnerable, making mistakes, and growing from them.
I love it, Shelly. Thank you. The last thing my father talked about was vision and Charles was the ultimate pragmatist. He was not highly educated. Formally educated but self-educated, yes. We hear a lot about vision and you think it’s like Nostradamus or Elon Musk that you see things that no one else can see. My father was always like, “Tracey, vision is seeing what needs to be done and then doing it.” You have this strategic yet tactical aspect, this execution. What does vision look like for you, Shelly, both personally and professionally?
Developing A Vision For The Future
It’s interesting that you asked that because this is my eighth year and we have yet to have some vision statement written down. We started working on it around 2019, got a team together, then it fizzled out, and then COVID happened. I never revisited it. Honestly, it’s been a burden to me because if you don’t know where you’re going or your mindset, then you go anywhere. You’re going nowhere. I don’t think that we’re going nowhere here.
It would be nice and more effective if we had something in writing. Before school was out, I asked my team. I said, “I’m looking for a team of 8 to 12 people that would be wanting to come alongside me and work together as a team to create our vision.” We’re almost doing it backwards with the end of mine because I know what we do in action. I want us to write it down so we all are on the same page and we know what that is.
People have said that over the years. They’re like, “Shelly, I know you don’t think we have a vision but we do. It’s what we do every day.” You put people first. We put kids first. We make decisions about what kids. It’s a we thing, and yet, there’s still something to be said about coming together collectively as a team, as a tribe together, saying, “This is what we believe for Franklin Township Elementary School. We’re all on the same vision and headed in the same direction when we’re derailing a little bit in some way, shape, or form.”
Throughout here, we can say, “Let’s realign and recalibrate. We’re back to our vision. This is what we say we’re going to do. Now let’s do it again, like get back on.” It’s like failing forward, but if we don’t have something to fall back on, you go back to what you know is right, which is fine. It would be nice if we had some vision in place. That’s what we have here. It’s our vision of we matter and we want people to know we matter. I let the staff know you matter. Our kids matter. They come first and we put people first. We make decisions about what’s best for kids.
We matter, and our vision reflects that. We put people first and make decisions based on what’s best for kids.
It’s centered around we and that’s how our team operates. When we see a need, we feel a need. It doesn’t matter who it is. It’s our role. We have certain hours in a day that we work and we do that. Whatever that day calls for. My office colleague and we were outside. We brought our shovels. We were outside rototilling the landscaping out there, trying to help the team, maybe short staff here or there. We’re not above that by any stretch. In fact, that was hard work. I’m like, “I’m sore.” Physically sore because we saw a need. We’re filling a need because it’s part of the cause. It’s our school. It’s all of us. They’re everything is about us, we and a team. That’s our vision. We have to figure out how to get that in writing.
It’s not just you. It’s every place I’ve worked. It’s even a tremendous leadership. It’s like we get to running the race and doing stuff and we forget about the vision. I have to hit myself up so the readers are out there, and yet, it’s the most important thing, because we’re doing stuff. I love it, Shelly. Also, I know people forget. I’ve been back here many years. Anybody that’s been here for the time knows what it is, but bringing people in you’ve got new teachers coming in. You’re vetting people.
It’s so important to have that laid out so people understand there’s a value congruent said people don’t go, “I didn’t know that was at the heart of what this school,” because there’s some wild things going on about what people believe a K-12 school should be doing now or K-8 school. It’s important that it protects the integrity of what you do and makes sure everybody’s rowing in the same thing and not going, “I didn’t know that’s what we are.” We think everybody gets it. They don’t get it.
You’re 100 % right. We have such a young staff here. Even since I’ve been here, I have hired probably close to 90% of our staff. It’s that tribal knowledge. People coming in may not know if we don’t share it. That tribal knowledge can be something as simple as how to run a copy machine, but even deeper and bigger is our vision.
If they don’t know the heart of who we are as Franklin Township Elementary School team, somebody can maybe pick up on that hopefully from time to time or quicker than later if we don’t have that written down. It reminds me of our school has been like two people tell us two different things and describe our school as utopia and magical. Two separate people, two separate occasions and couple of years apart.
I said to our team at the end of the school. I’m like, “Those aren’t ordinary words that you hear every day about workplaces. When people leave the job, it’s because of lack of that thing, lack of culture, appreciation, and of feeling valued and worth something and appreciated.” That is our vision. I never want people here, no matter what your role is, you matter. No matter what you’re asked to do or call to do or your title, so to speak. There’s no hierarchy.
You all matter. You all play a very important role in the lives of our kids and our team here. That’s part of our vision. If it’s not written down, as you said, it compromises or not comprises integrity. We don’t have that structure to fall back on if we don’t have something in writing. Now, I’m even more motivated and inspired to get something. It’s something indelible that we can remember and reflect back on and say, “This is our compass. This is our Franklin Township compass.” At the end of the day, it’s what matters most. It’s the people.
Long after I’m gone, I could be gone 6 months and I could do self-care for 6 months, this place will continue on probably even better than it’s ever been. It’s not about me. It’s a we thing. They are fantastic out there. I think that is our vision. If people aren’t buying in, I don’t know it. That’s maybe a good or bad thing but we’re all in it for kids. We want to make each other better.
It comes down to communicating and communicating that vision. Brené Brown always says, “Clear is kind.” I try to focus on that. Let’s be clear. Let’s be clear in the expectations and what we expect from each other. This is what I expect of you. What do you expect from me? Again, part of that vision of, that’s a good decision. That benefits you. How does that benefit kids?
Clear expectations and communication are key. Let's be clear on what we expect from each other.
The Chosen reference, I think about Matthew, who was always writing everything down. They all ended up writing stuff down, but Matthew especially gets called out. If he hadn’t written stuff down, if they hadn’t allowed the Holy Spirit to put pen to paper, as they said, we wouldn’t have the number one bestseller of all time forever. They’re not doing it and teaching it, but there’s that degradation. That mission where you don’t put it in writing and you don’t use that as the North Star and weigh everything against because you get into that culture slide, mission drift, and moral relativism. It’s rampant, especially in education.
Importance Of Delegation
Tracey, can I mention one more thing about abandonment? I don’t know what it was that you mentioned specifically, but it reminded me of delegating. The idea or thought that I have to do everything myself. I am slowly abandoning that. Something I wish I had thought of years ago. I read this book and took a class on what great principles do differently. They talked a big section about delegation and how delegating things that other people can do will help you to do only the things you can do, then delegate.
If somebody can do it 80% of efficiency and effectiveness, then give it a way to somebody else to do. Eighty percent is hard for me because that’s like a B minus. They need to be able to do it well, but I’d like it a little higher than a B. My point is, I don’t have to do everything. There are certain things that only I can do. I can only do observations. I can only have certain parent conversations and certain walkthroughs. That’s part of only my job.
Things that other people can do that I don’t have to do necessarily because I’m maybe controlling it or type A. I need to abandon that and let go because I have a great team here. I can trust everybody with everything to do the work that I do. As I said, I could step away and it would just be flawless here. That is something I’m working on for anybody out there that’s struggling with delegating because we all do at times because we have a certain mindset of how it should be.
That’s another thing that Brené Brown said is, “When you are communicating and able to delegate.” She uses a term, paint done for me. At the end of this, what does this look like as it’s done? Sometimes I have a vision in my mind. I have an idea of what it should look like and I’m not clear in communicating that then it ends up maybe a little bit different. I’m like, “I didn’t paint done for them. I didn’t paint the picture of what it should look like at the end of this.” That falls on me and I have to reflect.
Shelly, you said a B-minus. Remember, I look back at some of my initial blogs or books or my speeches, I’m like, “Oh boy.” The fact that somebody didn’t stand up and say, “Seriously?” It’s a testament to the grace of God. I would give myself maybe a D-plus and some of those things I go back but we all started out. The only reason we got good proficient is we did it at times and everybody gets to that spot.
Thanks for letting me go back to that.
You’re welcome. That’s huge. Sometimes, we get into it because I can get it done so much quicker. The other thing is, for solopreneurs, people like me, do I have the resources to pay somebody to do it or do I just take an hour out of my day? That’s the thing. I would love to delegate everything, but mine is more of a bottom-line constraint. If I do that, am I bringing in an upper avenue to cover that? It takes off.
A lot of times, for me, it’s done way better than I would have done it myself. I gained new ideas from it. I’m like, “I never thought of doing it that way.
Shelly, we covered loneliness, weariness, abandonment and vision, then abandonment again, which is good because that’s the thing that stops us. You can have all the vision in the world, but if you can’t stop, what’s the Proverbs? As a dog returns to his vomit, four returns to his folly. I coach people and they keep going back to the stuff. I’m like, “We already put this one to bed.” I’m glad you covered that twice is my point. Sorry dogs about the vomit first. I don’t like using it, but I’ll take it. Anything else on leadership that you want to cover that you want to share with our readers that we have not already touched on?
Creating Leaders, Not Followers
I always go back and this is personally and professionally. I always want to be better. You’re the average of the five people you spend most time with. I want to be around people that are going to, not the peoples of my world. I want to be around people like you. When I go to you and you’re like, “Shelly, you already know what I’m going to say about this. You need to dial it back,” or, “This is where you slipped up. Now let’s talk about that. Let’s unpack this a little bit.” You can learn from this and not repeat it. If we don’t hang out with people that are going to make us better, I’m going to be the same today as I was yesterday and the same five years from now.
The Charlie Jones. You’ll be the same person five years from now than you now, except for the people you meet and the books you read. You allow to pour into you. That’s the thing. You keep talking about books and interactions with people. There are plenty of people out there that read books and listen to people, but you are open to receive. That’s the big difference.
It’s hard for people to give you feedback if it’s a people that you supervise. I recognize that. I still have a few that’ll say, “I know you’re looking for feedback, Shelly. Here’s what I noticed and this is hard for me to tell you. I’m going to say it to you because I know you’re expecting it and you’re asking for it.” I value that. None of us are saying, “Pick me for constructive criticism.”
I don’t want it any more than the next person. It’s also where I’m going to grow, as I said, my blind spots. I don’t know that that came across that way. I feel like we surround ourselves with people that are going to speak truth and life into us with truth and grace. That’s the same manner in which I want to hold conversations. I’m not afraid to have the hard conversations with my staff and our team and they know it.
They also know that I’m going to love them through it. It’s unconditional. We talk about the issue. We talk about the event, the action, and the word that was spoken then we deal with it. We put it behind us in rear view mirror. We don’t visit it again unless we have to. We hope that we learn from it because discipline is sometimes going to have a negative connotation. It comes from the word disciple, which means to teach. That’s what God is.
He’s very gentle in a lot of ways when he disciplines us. That’s how I want to be with kids and our staff. We’re a team. If I can’t be in a place where I can make mistakes and learn and grow from them. I don’t want to be here. I don’t want that for my team either. I want them to know like, “I can go to Shelly and I messed up. I know that we’re going to have a hard conversation and yet she’s still going to love me through it. Talk about the hard things and she’s not going to bring it up again.”
That’s what I would encourage all leaders to embrace that because you want to be somebody that is a safe space for people. You want to be able to also be willing to get feedback from those same people because if you’ve called yourself a leader, you could be taking a walk if nobody’s behind you. I don’t necessarily need to be the leader with the followers. I want to create leaders out there. I want those folks. I tell them all the time, “You are a leader, whether you see it or not.” Whatever your title is, you’re a leader.
We say to our kids, “Leader is influence, good or bad. It’s influence. Nothing more, nothing less.” How are you influencing people in your day-to-day interactions? How am I being influenced by other people in my day-to-day interactions? How am I allowing other people to influence me? It’s about wanting self-development in personal and professional growth and what you focus on grows. Whatever it is that I want to focus on, I want it to be good, wholesome and noble. I want it to be right. That’s going to help me be better.
Better for our team here. Better for the kingdom. Who am I influencing? Who can I talk to that’s going to give God the glory for who I am as a person? Apart from him, I’m filthy rags. It’s only by his grace and blood that I can even sit here and talk about the growth I’ve had because of what he’s created in me, how he’s given me the conviction and how I can change and want to be better. I fail tremendously all the time. I get up and say, “Lord, this is where I messed up. How can I be better about this tomorrow?
Shelly, if people want to stay in touch with you, what’s the best way for them to do that?
Email. Do people get phone numbers on here?
Thank you. If you want to put some wonderful stuff on Facebook, positive messages and LinkedIn, just in case they want to talk to you. If you’re in the South Central, PA area, moving here or have children in this age group, Shelly’s someone you would want to be in touch with.
They could email me and as you said, I can give that information at the bottom or wherever. I would love to connect because I’ve thought about that with so many people that you have on there. I’m trying to furiously write down their contact because I want to reach out to those people and dig more into their story because I’m learning so much from the people you have on here. Every time it can’t get better, it does right up until now. You have tremendous people on there.
Including you. That’s the point of this. Not just to read. I want everybody, what Charles is known for. People are like, “They introduced me to Truett Cathy and Ken Blanchett.” That’s who we’re here for. We’re here to network together because the more people you have in your Rolodex or on your prayer team or whatever. Life is going to come your way and they’re a resource for you. You can be a resource for other people. That’s why COVID was so tough. It fragmented everybody and wanted everybody to have to cut everybody off. That’s the worst possible thing.
It taught us to handle hard better in some regard and we still have to handle hard better. We still have to dig down and deeper down and get some grit and more resilience. That’s what we have to do with our kids more than ever.
Leadership Strategies: We must handle hard times better and teach resilience and grit to our kids.
Shelly, speaking of that, what do you see? What do you think about, you’re all this stuff about education and I don’t watch the news. I’m rarely on social media because you know why. I want a good brain. I want to listen to independent thinkers and few journals. What do you see for school? I know you control what you can control in a brilliant way but what are your hopes for the future with education?
Thank you for saying that, by the way. I’m a work in progress. I worry, to be honest, about education because so many good people are leaving it. Also, we’re getting good people coming into it. I can attest to that with some staff we’ve hired for this coming school year. They’re out there. We just have to do a better job at soliciting and recruiting them. Even more so, we have to do a better job at retaining people. We want people to run to education not from it and that’s what’s happening more. Since COVID I’ve noticed it but it is recovering slowly. We have to take care of the people when we have them.
Focus on valuing and retaining great people in education. We want people to run to education, not from it.
Once we get them here, we have to do a good job at valuing them, seeing them, and taking care of them so that they want to keep showing up every day for kids. It’s not going to get any easier. To keep referring back to COVID, I feel like it was that new benchmark for people and education and even the learning curve. We’re growing all the time. Are our kids academically or kids anywhere academic where we want them to be or where they might have been this time ten years ago? Probably not, but if they’re quantitative data points.
I get more concerned about the quality of people. Are we helping people to value themselves and have self-worth, handle hard better, develop resilience and up grit because that’s our generation that’s coming up? We have to be more concerned of developing toughness than more over developing happiness because happiness comes and goes. It ebbs and flows. It snapshots as well, but we have grit and resilience to handle those tough things that are going to be tough because parents are handling different crises differently. Kids are coming in with lacking self-regulation because You’re only as good as how you were coached up and skilled up and the experiences that you have.
When you’re 5 years old or even 22 coming in college, you’re only as good as the experiences that you have. That’s only good or better and different. That’s all you have. We have to do a better job at mentoring and coaching our kids, whether you’re 5 or 95, to be able to handle the things that life throws that you differently and better. Looking at it is what can I learn and grow from this? As Joshua says in his book, Chop Wood Carry Water, “Everything that happens to me today is in my best interest and an opportunity to learn and grow.”
I heard it on your show and I also read it in a book more. It’s also biblical, probably, is that, “Bad things are going to happen. Pain is inevitable but you don’t have to suffer through it.” That’s a choice. It’s hard to say that because I’ve had my own grieving. Say I lost my dad in January and I could have curled up in a ball for months if I allowed myself but I have the Lord and I have hope. I have to live like that. I have to still get up, pull myself up, and be like, “You got a mission. This life is temporary. It’s a vapor. We have to still keep doing the best we can do in education to build up the future generation.”
These are the kids are going to take care of us and I don’t have kids. I depend on these kids and take care of you. I’m personally invested in them. Anyway, it’s hard. When we don’t know, we can’t grow. We asked them to know how to do our jobs better, both in our workplace and outside of it so that we’re valuing the people around us and motivating and inspiring so they also want to be better. It’s got to be contagious and inspirational.
I love that you talked about because a lot of people are like, “The school, I’m just here for read and write rhythm tech.” Great. I got it. In a perfect world where kids were taught, we could only focus on IQ and not EQ, self-awareness, self-discipline, motivation, and emotional regulation. The fact that you are helping them. If you don’t have that, it doesn’t matter what you overlay onto your head. It’s so important. I’m thankful that you are pouring into their character. Charles is going to school in eighth grade but somebody taught him EQ. That took him places he never could have gone had he not had it.
For those of you that are out there, volunteer to teach. You don’t have to do it as a living like Shelly. Although, if you have an opportunity. A lot of you are retired. Most of our audiences are on their 2nd, 3rd, or 4th careers. Go back and teach Vacation Bible school. Volunteer. Big Brothers or Big Sisters. Anything.
Teaching is like nothing else. You think, “I’ve done this in my life.” If you haven’t had a teacher in your resume, do it. You will be like, “I wouldn’t have known this was this much fun. I would have done this much earlier.” The world needs tremendous teachers in every capacity. As like I said, pouring into this generation. It is a gift rabbi. They call, “Jesus was a teacher.” That’s what he was. He trained his twelves so well that here we are 2,500 years later still talking about how well he trained them. That’s it, Rabbi. They encourage you.
I added teacher to my resume the past year and a half happen. I’m like, “This is awesome.” People are helping to learn. You make a difference. It’s not about the bottom line or saying crap a different day. Teaching is life giving. Anybody out there, if you’ve got a little bit of time in your schedule, ask somebody if you can teach either after school or a community project. As I said, Vacation Bible School or Sunday School. Anything.
Thank you for that plug about teachers and teaching. As I said, sometimes I pinch myself because this is the best group and I can be a lot. I’m a lot to handle some days. I know that about me. I can’t escape me, but I’m just so grateful that I get to do it with the people that are here with me all the time. They make me better. I can’t believe I get to do this. I get cheered up thinking about our team all the time. I know people get tired of hearing about them but they’re just the best. They have grown me more than they’ll ever know in so many ways.
It’s summer and a lot of times people would be like, “Thank God. I could have a reprieve,” but you’re like, “When do they come back into school?” That’s how you know you’re in your zone of giftings.
A healthy break for everybody is good because it teaches you to appreciate the people. I agree with that, too. It’s nice. It’s a change of pace for us. We’re getting things done without interruptions and stuff but sometimes you miss the interruptions. It’s about the people. You never want to lose sight of that. It’s all good. It’s all good in seasons. You take your breaks then it’s like, “I appreciate the people that I work with and I get do this. I don’t have to do it. I get to and I love it. I’m so grateful for it.”
I love it, Shelly. Thank you for pouring into this next generation and making a difference. I know these little kids are going to be talking about you for decades to come. Probably in heaven, there’s going to be many that run up to you and say, “Dr. Lappi, you were the one.” I thank you for that. Thank you for sharing about what it takes to pay the price of leadership, Shelly.
Thank you, Tracey, for having me on here. As I said, I’ve read these for years and I’m like, “Those people are amazing.” I’ve learned so much from you and all the people that you have on here. Thank you for the opportunity. Maybe there’s one thing that someone can take away. If there’s one thing, it’s worth it.
No doubt. To our readers out there, we want to thank you so much for spending time with us. Make sure you connect with Shelly and make sure you get yourself involved with some tremendous people and tremendous books. If you like what you read, please be sure and hit the subscribe button. If you do us the honor of a review, we would be very thankful. Share this with somebody who’s in the throes of paying the price of leadership and let them know they’re not alone. The victory is theirs. We hope you were encouraged and inspired. Thank you so much for being a part of our tremendous tribe. Have a tremendous rest of the day.
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About Dr. Shelly Lappi
Dr. Shelly Lappi has been an educator for 25 years. During that time, she served as a teacher for 7, Assistant Principal for 10, and Principal for 8. She also adjuncts part-time at various colleges in their M.Ed and leadership courses. She loves fishing and The CHOSEN!